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Large New World Discovered Beyond Neptune
Space.com ^ | July 29, 2005 | Robert Roy Britt

Posted on 07/29/2005 1:29:16 PM PDT by Righty_McRight

A newfound object in our solar system's outskirts may be larger than any known world after Pluto, scientists said today.

It also has a moon.

Designated as 2003 EL61, the main object in the two-body system is 32 percent as massive as Pluto and is estimated to be about 70 percent of Pluto's diameter.

Other news reports that the object could be twice as big as Pluto are false, according to two astronomers who found the object in separate studies and another expert who has analyzed the data.

If the mass is only one-third that of Pluto, then theory holds that it can't be larger than Pluto, according to Brian Marsden of the Minor Planet Center, which serves as a clearinghouse for data on all newfound objects in the solar system.

Marsden, who was not involved in the discovery but has reviewed the data, told SPACE.com that the mass estimate is very firm, within 1 or 2 percent. "I don’t think it is bigger than Pluto," he said.

Where it fits in

This is still a big world, once again raising the prospect that something larger than Pluto might still lurk out there.

Scientists base their size calculations in part on the object's reflectivity. Since they don't know exactly how much the surface brightness of distant objects varies, there is some wiggle room in their size estimates.

A team led by Mike Brown of Caltech has been observing 2003 EL61 for a year but was seeking more data before announcing the discovery. Brown said today it may possibly be larger than Sedna, which has been the largest known world beyond Neptune other than Pluto.

Sedna is between 800 and 1,100 miles in diameter. Pluto is about 1,400 miles across.

Brown figures 2003 EL61 has a diameter of around 930 miles.

Is there any chance it is bigger than Pluto?

"No," Brown said in a telephone interview. "Definitely not."

In fact, Brown's team got the new data they had been waiting for, from the Spitzer Space Telescope, last week. While not fully analyzed, he said the Spitzer observations show "absolutely" that the object is not bigger than Pluto.

Who gets credit?

The object was spotted independently by a group led by Jose-Luis Ortiz of the Sierra Nevada Observatory in Spain. Ortiz' team announced the finding in astronomy circles recently and the finding, including the claim that it might be twice as big as Pluto, was reported by an online news site today.

Ortiz said that based on his team's observations, there was one outlying theory could allow 2003 EL61 to be larger than Pluto, but he does not think it is right.

"I do not think it is larger than Pluto," Ortiz told SPACE.com today.

Brown was surprised last night to learn that Ortiz' group had independently found the object, which only yesterday gained the tag 2003 EL61 from the Minor Planet Center. It was a rare case of one group of astronomers unwittingly scooping another.

Brown said that Ortiz' group rightfully deserves credit for making the discovery.

About that moon

2003 EL61 orbits the Sun on an elliptical path beyond Neptune in a region of space known as the Kuiper Belt. It is significantly inclined to the main plane of the solar system where most of the planets travel. It is one of several objects out there now known to have a satellite.

The moon around 2003 EL61 is small, making up only about 1 percent of the mass of the system, Brown said.

"This satellite is the smallest satellite relative to its primary known in the Kuiper belt," Brown said. "Pluto's satellite, Charon, is about 10 percent of the mass of Pluto.

Marsden, of the Minor Planet Center, said it is surprising the object was not discovered earlier. He said it was probably just barely too faint to be spotted in the sky survey done by Clyde Tombaugh that led to the discovery of Pluto 75 years ago.

Brown's team first spotted 2003 EL61, which had no name at the time, using the Samuel Oschin Telescope at Palomar Observatory on May 6, 2004. They did not realized they had found it until Dec. 28, 2004, after scrutinizing their data in and ongoing effort to find Kuiper Belt Objects.

In a series of three images, the object is seen moving across the sky in relation to relatively fixed background stars.

Ortiz's group initially detected the object in 2003 and spotted it again this year, leading to their announcement yesterday.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: 2003el61; joseluisortiz; space; xplanets
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1 posted on 07/29/2005 1:29:16 PM PDT by Righty_McRight
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To: Righty_McRight

Al right, I want to know who is responsible for not knowing about this sooner.


2 posted on 07/29/2005 1:32:58 PM PDT by GingisK
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To: Righty_McRight
Here's a pic:


3 posted on 07/29/2005 1:34:18 PM PDT by RockinRight (Democrats - Trying to make an a$$ out of America since 1933)
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To: GingisK

I knew about it, but Karl Rove swore me to secrecy....


4 posted on 07/29/2005 1:36:22 PM PDT by BreitbartSentMe (Ex-Democrat since 2001)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Righty_McRight

Is this the minor planet that got the unpronouncable Inuit name a few years back?


6 posted on 07/29/2005 1:44:50 PM PDT by Redcloak (We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces singin' "whiskey for my men and beer for my horses!")
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To: Gimme my boots
This guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

The CalTech scientist doesn't know what he's talking about.

I'll have to add that to the list of foolish things I haven't said yet.

7 posted on 07/29/2005 1:45:36 PM PDT by JohnnyZ ("I believe abortion should be safe and legal in this country." -- Mitt Romney)
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To: Gimme my boots
This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. It would have to be bigger for any reflection to be detected by an earth-based telescope. You cant' have deflection viewing around an object.

Mind explaining?
8 posted on 07/29/2005 1:45:41 PM PDT by kingu (Draft Fmr Senator Fred Thompson for '08.)
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To: Redcloak
Is this the minor planet that got the unpronouncable Inuit name a few years back?

Nope, new one.
9 posted on 07/29/2005 1:46:15 PM PDT by kingu (Draft Fmr Senator Fred Thompson for '08.)
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To: Righty_McRight
Does this mean that "My Very Excellent Mother Just Served Us Nine Pizzas" goes out the window??
10 posted on 07/29/2005 1:46:56 PM PDT by WIladyconservative (Be an active member of the pajamahadeen - set up a monthly donation to FR!!)
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: WIladyconservative

My Very Excellent Mother Just Served Us Nine Pizza Subs


12 posted on 07/29/2005 1:50:35 PM PDT by El Sordo
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To: Gimme my boots

What'd ya do, drill a hole to the center of the planetish thing?


13 posted on 07/29/2005 1:50:40 PM PDT by JohnnyZ ("I believe abortion should be safe and legal in this country." -- Mitt Romney)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: Righty_McRight
Another research team got scooped by an amateur on this, so a lot of other objects are being cataloged today lest they lose credit for those as well.

Of interest:

2005FY9, which is a little larger than 2003 EL61 and the same distance out.

And really interesting:

2003 UB313, estimated at 4400-9900 km in diameter! That is a bloody planet, but it also has an inclination of 44 degrees.

16 posted on 07/29/2005 1:52:23 PM PDT by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: Gimme my boots
Gosh, do you take a virtual tape measure with you, or does the power of your mind simply slice the planetoid into pieces and mark out the miles?

Oh, and are you familiar with the cats that roam this board?
17 posted on 07/29/2005 1:52:49 PM PDT by kingu (Draft Fmr Senator Fred Thompson for '08.)
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To: El Sordo

"My Very Excellent Mother Just Served Us Nine Pizzas 2003 EL61"


18 posted on 07/29/2005 1:55:16 PM PDT by WIladyconservative (Be an active member of the pajamahadeen - set up a monthly donation to FR!!)
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To: tortoise
I was looking at the 'Planet Lila' page that Mike Brown is posting on his website, incorrectly assuming that this was the same object under discussion. Figured it out just before I posted about it, thankfully.

http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/planetlila/index.html
19 posted on 07/29/2005 1:55:23 PM PDT by kingu (Draft Fmr Senator Fred Thompson for '08.)
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To: Gimme my boots
So you really think the credit should go to Tom Cruise, not this Ortiz guy?

"I just can't restrain myself, I honestly can't," he said, upon announcing news of the newly discovered planet. "I've never felt like this before - and I want to communicate it - it's good to communicate happy things. People like hearing it."

20 posted on 07/29/2005 1:58:21 PM PDT by JohnnyZ ("I believe abortion should be safe and legal in this country." -- Mitt Romney)
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