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In my experience, those who are forced to make insulting and snide remarks in arguing there case have already lost. That is the second time you have suggested a drink. Do you have a drinking problem?

"So why did they start drinking alcohol?"

Because they are suffering from a disease called alcoholism...DUH! I have never met an alcoholic who started out life deciding "I think I'll become an alcoholic. Gee, what a great idea, I'll start today."

The only people who have a vested interest in denying the disease nature of alcoholism are
1. those who have been victimized by someone in their lives who was an alcoholic and so they feel the need to hate them or blame them for their own problems.
2. Those who are actively alcoholic and are in denial so in their defensiveness, they feel the need to lash out at anyone who suggests they might have a problem. I look forward to seeing them in the rooms of AA eventually.
3. Super moralists who think that they know more about solving problems than those the medical field. The self-righteous are capable of doing more harm than any of the rest because they will attempt to keep those who suffer from seeking the help they need.
4. Those self-righteous souls who just "know" that if a person just exercises his will, he can conquor the problem. Ignorance is bliss.

Those self-righteous souls who just "know" that if a person just exercises his will, he can conquor the problem. Ignorance is bliss.

You seem to me to be deep into the AA way of life. Anyone who disagrees with you is either ignorant or in "denial", some mysterious condition making them incapable of seeing the truth. If AA works for you, great, but for most people who quit, millions in fact including President Bush, they simply get fed up with drinking and quit one day, for good. They do not join a cult and load a host of self-replicating mind viruses. None of this one day at a time stuff, just one poof and it's over. No meetings, no associating with drinkers who "relapse", no turning over control of their behavior to a higher power.

The big problem with viewing alcoholism as a disease is it gives the drinker an excuse to drink, absolving them of personal responsibility. That's not good.

Denial exists as denying something to others, but it is not possible to lie to yourself. If you don't think you have a drinking problem, you don't. If you have one, you know it. Convincing someone they are "in denial" if they don't agree with something is cult talk. AA has a high failure rate. Quitting for good one day has a good success rate. Millions of people succeed at this, without joining AA. My point is AA is not the only answer out there, and that many of the mind viruses of AA, such as that drinking is a disease, are more harmful than helpful.

One thing about the Clinton years is that liberals hijacked many AA mind viruses and ran with it. It was very appealing because they could absolve personal responsibility for just about anything. Clinton at one point claimed he had a sex addiction, thereby it wasn't his fault. It was shameful.

In my experience, those who are forced to make insulting and snide remarks in arguing there case have already lost. That is the second time you have suggested a drink. Do you have a drinking problem? I find that people who take themselves so seriously as to not be able to spot, nor enjoy a good natured joke have not just lost the arguement, but lost the game of life.

"So why did they start drinking alcohol?"

Because they are suffering from a disease called alcoholism...DUH!

It they knew they were alcoholics before they took their first drink (your claim), then why did they no ... NOT drink alcohol in the first place. You can't be addicited to a drug you have never taken. DUH!!!

I have never met an alcoholic who started out life deciding "I think I'll become an alcoholic. Gee, what a great idea, I'll start today."

Yeah, if they knew they would be an alcoholic, they would avoid it. People are are allergic to peanuts don't eat them either. Sometimes you just have to use some sense. What you are describing isn't alcoholism, it's mental illness.

The only people who have a vested interest in denying the disease nature of alcoholism are

People with an IQ. I have never met an alcoholic who started out life deciding "I think I'll become an alcoholic. Gee, what a great idea, I'll start today."