Cargolux to negociate with Boeing for the procurement of next generation aircraft. (747 Advanced)

Cargolux.com ^ | July 20, 2005 | Staff

[Paleo Conservative]

Looks like an announcement by Boeing announcing the 747 Advanced will happen in the next month or two.

[Paleo Conservative]

If you want on or off my aerospace ping list, please contact me by Freep mail not by posting to this thread.

[leadpenny]

Am I stating the obvious when I say they should be buying the 380? Or, at least, Airbus thinks they should be?

[Prophet in the wilderness]

Yes... it sounds like it to me.
This could be the order that Boeing could be looking for to get ready to launch the 747 Advanced PAX and F versions.
But, I am still not clear on who will be the launch costumer.
I think, it will be either Cathay Airlines or British Airlines.

[Gamecock]

Am I stating the obvious when I say they should be buying the 380?

Hehehe.

Am I right in speculating that "x" number of the 90 destinations to which Cargolux flies probably aren't willing to modify their runways and cargo terminals to accommodate the A380? If I'm right, Cargolux would lose "some" destinations by choosing the A380.

[Paleo Conservative]

Am I stating the obvious when I say they should be buying the 380? Or, at least, Airbus thinks they should be?

The A380 is not a good aircraft to carry oversized or dense freight. The floors especially the upper deck floor are not strong enough, and the A380 runs out of lift capacity long before it runs out of space. The 747 cargo version has a nose door allowing it to load oversized cargo for which freight airlines charge premium prices. The A380F will be more suited to carrying packages for UPS or FedEx than industrial cargoes that Cargolux and other freight lines carry. The A380F will have more range than the 747 Advanced freighter allowing nonstop freight service from the US to China, but most freight lines don't care if they need to make an extra stop. Freighers are designed with less range than the passenger variants of the same aircraft so they can haul more weight. They also tend to have stronger landing gear in order to land with more weight. Passenger planes carry more fuel and burn it off before landing so they are lighter by the time they land.

[leadpenny]

I have a friend who is an employee of a subcontractor to the Boeing folks in Crystal City, VA. He sent me an internal email the other day that showed the 380 ripping up the tarmac. It's not clear if it was being towed or taxiing. In either case the writer of the email was gloating over the possibility that there is a huge design flaw with the main landing gear.

[leadpenny]

See my 7. The writer half joked that airports will have to build 50 acre turnaround ramps for the 380 unless they redesign the gear.

[Paleo Conservative]

I got a Freepmail about that a couple of days ago. Apparently Airbus wanted to save weight by not having all four landing gear assemblies steerable. I wonder how much expense correcting their landing gear problem will add to the development program?

[leadpenny]

That's the one. The pics showed the tires ripped off the rims and supposedly there were damaged gear components.

[GarySpFc]

How are orders for the 787 stacking up against the A-380?

[Gamecock]

I think the unsung hero of the Boeing line is the 737.

From the Boeing Website:

Orders through July 12, 2005	717	737	747	767	777	787	Total
2005 Net Orders	-14	336	5	0	25	87	439
Air Europa		3					3
Air France					9		9
Alaska Airlines		35					35
All Nippon Airways					2		2
Boeing Business Jet		3					3
China Cargo			2				2
Continental Airlines						5	5
COPA Airlines		5					5
Ethiopian Airlines						10	10
First Choice Airways						6	6
GE Capital Corporation		26					26
GOL Airlines		13					13
Guggenheim Aviation Partners			6				6
Icelandair		15				2	17
ILFC		20			8		28
Japan Airlines		30				30	60
Korean Air			1			10	11
Nippon Cargo Airlines			1				1
Northwest Airlines						18	18
Ryanair		75					75
Singapore Aircraft Leasing		20					20
SpiceJet		10					10
Unidentified		78		4	5	6	93
U.S. Air Force		3					3
2005 Gross Orders		336	10	4	24	87	461
Changes	-14		-5	-4	1		-22
2005 Net Orders	-14	336	5	0	25	87	439
	717	737	747	767	777	787	Total
This chart includes both gross and net total orders for the current year. The net total includes order changes such as conversions or cancellations subtracted from the gross total orders (net year of cancel). This chart is updated weekly. The totals displayed in the reporting database are 'net year of order' totals. The data for the reports is updated once a month.
Blue text in the chart above indicates updates for the current week.
For more information on the underlying data, see report notes.

[Paradox]

The 737 platform has proven to be one of the more flexible airline designs around. They are still modding that thing, and coming out with another version soon that will carry even more passengers.

[Daus]

It's not clear if it was being towed or taxiing.

To be fair to the Frenchies, the mega-ton plane was being towed at a 90 degree angle by a tug to test tire and gear failure. Word is that it was actually a successful test.

[GarySpFc]

Thanks for the update, but how does this compare to Airbus?

I am surprised to see Air France has ordered 9 Boeing 777's. Does the 777 have an obvious advantage over an Airbus long range model? Also, what advantage does the 777 have over the 787?

[RayChuang88]

In fact, I think Boeing could end up selling quite a lot of 747 Advanced freighters because 1) it can carry outsized cargo (which the A380-800F won't accommodate), 2) thanks to the use of GENx engines the plane could fly from Los Angeles to Shanghai on a full cargo load and be able to fly in and out of London-area airports 24 hours a day.

Besides Cargolux, I think Atlas Air, Nippon Cargo Airlines, and the air cargo divisions of Cathay Pacific Airways, Lufthansa, Northwest Airlines, and Singapore Airlines would love to buy the plane.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

When it first came out, a friend in the airline business referred to the 737 as a "stubby." It certainly doesn't look sawed off today.

[Gamecock]

I have no idea. I looked at the Airbus site and they post total sales for each model, not year by year orders.

[NavyCanDo]

10 747's doesn't sound like much to us single Isle folks - but when you think about it that is nearly a years worth of airplanes.

[leadpenny]

Interesting. I've erased the email and pics my friend had sent me but I believe he mentioned something about possible propaganda wars going on between Boeing and Airbus