They'll destroy the qualities that made our [UK] Forces great

Daily Telegraph ^ | 07/21/2005 | Tim Collins

[Heatseeker]

May 2003 was an uncomfortable time in Iraq. The President of the United States had just announced that combat operations were complete and force levels were beginning to be reduced, following the defeat of the Iraqi army in the field.

But the vacuum that had been created by the toppling of the Ba'athist regime of Saddam Hussein had not been filled - and clearly the people needed some form of leadership after 35 years of one-party rule. That vacuum was made more severe by the removal of the Iraqi army and police, resulting in an outbreak of lawlessness that was on a biblical scale.

In Iraq, the Queen's Lancashire Regiment (QLR) battle group, along with two other battalions, was plunged into a maelstrom. Some 3,000 men faced a population of two million disgruntled Iraqis. To gauge the immensity of this task, consider that we police Northern Ireland - population 1.5 million - with about 12,000 men. Furthermore, we have the benefit of 35 years of experience there and we can speak the language.

Now, five members of the QLR and two Intelligence Corps personnel have been told that they are facing a court martial.

What is more, the charges have been levelled long after the case was first aired in the civil courts in the UK.

--snip--

The delay and prevarication has damaged morale in the Armed Forces, brought about an unprecedented intervention by former Chiefs of Defence in the Lords, and dismayed both the families of Baha Musa and the men of the QLR and their families...

--snip--

What would be a disaster and national embarrassment of epic proportions is if a single British serviceman or woman found themselves instead at the international court in The Hague...

[Heatseeker]

I'm uncertain about exerpting rules for the Telegraph; if what I've done is improper (or if this has already been posted - I searched but didn't find it) please remove - thanks.

[devolve]

The scummy lawyers and ambitious politicians need to be dealt with.

Tell the Hague and the UN to take a hike.

How big is their army?

[Heatseeker]

I believe their regular army is about 113,000, excluding 40,000+ Territorial Army (a sort of National Guard).

Any Brits hereabouts can probably advise better than I.

[devolve]

Sorry - I meant "How big is the UN's army?"

[tjwmason]

Tell the Hague and the UN to take a hike.

The problem here lies not with the U.N. (which is simply doing what the U.N. does), but rather with a British government which panders to every new leftist internationalist idea. As you say, H.M. Government could tell the U.N. to go and.... [edited to avoid profanity] but it refuses to do so.

Next time a Freeper says what a wonderful man Tony Blair is - point him here. Since taking office his administration has consistently undermined H.M. Armed Forces - this is simply the latest step.

[cokecan]

the soldiers are charged under british military law and will stand trial at a courts martial in the UK.

the UK's signing up to the ICC has altered the phraseology of the charges, but not the actual offences with which they are charged - which is abuse of a prisoner, manslaughter and assault.

so wereas before the ICC act they would have been charged with assualt, abuse of a prisoner and manslaughter and tried by a british courts martial, they are now charged with assualt, abuse of a prisoner and manslaughter (war crimes) and tried by a british courts martial.

no difference in procedure or punishment, no difference in location. just a name change.

[cokecan]

the soldiers are charged under british military law and will stand trial at a courts martial in the UK.

the UK's signing up to the ICC has altered the phraseology of the charges, but not the actual offences with which they are charged - which is abuse of a prisoner, manslaughter and assault.

so wereas before the ICC act they would have been charged with assualt, abuse of a prisoner and manslaughter and tried by a british courts martial, they are now charged with assualt, abuse of a prisoner and manslaughter (war crimes) and tried by a british courts martial.

no difference in procedure or punishment, no difference in location. just a name change.

[Heatseeker]

Nyuk nyuk. Once a decent right-wing government comes to power to Holland, they can save everyone the hassle by pitching the whole ICJ into the English Channel.

[devolve]

Yeller-Journalism - Yeller-Cake

 

I smell cake..... Yeller-Cake or Yeller-Kook?

        

[Heatseeker]

Next time a Freeper says what a wonderful man Tony Blair is - point him here. Since taking office his administration has consistently undermined H.M. Armed Forces - this is simply the latest step.

Well, we're still waiting for the Tories to get their act together. According to the 2005 election policy document I got off their web site, "A Conservative Government will strengthen our Armed Forces within NATO by spending £2.7 billion more than Labour on the front line by 2007-08." Better than nothing I guess, but I think they could have done more.

[tjwmason]

Well, we're still waiting for the Tories to get their act together.

By all means criticise the Tory Party (it is for reasons such as this that I haven't been a member for several years), but under any circumstances it's a pretty gruesome sight to see conservatives slobbering over Tony Blair.

That said, the Tories are far more in touch with military folk (the Defence spokesman at the time of the election is a former Guards officer and grandson of Winston Churchill); even if the spending rises are nothing like what I would want - the basic attitude would be very different.

[Heatseeker]

I guess I'm just frustrated; I like Howard and thought he might have done better last May, but I realize the deck is stacked in favor of Labour. I am worried about what will happen when Brown takes over.

Got a favorite for the Conservative leadership?

[crazycat]

it's a pretty gruesome sight to see conservatives slobbering over Tony Blair.

Too true.

The rumour is that these trials are a sop to the Muslim community......which was pretty sick if true, but after the two London bombings, is a total disgrace. But all too typical of Blair.