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To: nj26

The Bush Administration and others have said all along that ultimately once Iraq is in control and has in interim gov., it is up to them to draft their own constitution. After all it is for them, not for us. Please I don't mean to lecture, but lets face it, their culture, custom, and religon is mostly foreign to westernized civilizaton. We cannot expect them to embrace our way of thinking, it is un-realistic.
What we can expect from them is to use westernized methods in forming a democractically elected government. GWB has stated more then once that was the main goal. Once they are on their own, then outside pressures such as has been applied throughout the ME, can come into play regarding fairness in human rights etc.. One thing I am keen on watching is how the "equal rights under the law" will play out for minority religions. Will Christains be free to practice their beliefs which are obviously totally different in 95%. Who will a Christian divorce be handled? Will either party have the right to file for divorce, and expect an impartial hearing? So many things are going to be interesting to watch. But I don't think it is fair for us to make snide remarks about how their laws are established.
We have to remember it is their choice.

Let us try to remember the key reasons for OIF.
1. remove a brutal dictator.
2. remove Iraq's capability of waging war that has keep the region in turmoil for a long time.
3. find and destroy all WMD Iraq had, so that terrorist could not used them against us or other western nations.
4. Set up a democratic Iraq that would be stable, a good neighbor, act as an example of what Arabs can do in a good way if they are given the chance.
5. Maintain a small foot print in ME for Intel reasons.
6. Establish solid business relationships with Iraq especially for purchasing oil and oil products.
7. By doing the above, eliminate the before possibility that Iraq could try to take over the Saudi Oil fields leading to a world wide catastrophy.
8. If the experiement works, piss the hell out of all the ME countries, as they subjects see Iraq prosper in a somewhat multiethnic democratic culture, adding the pressure points for other ME countries to move forward with democractic reform etc..
9. No once things settled down no longer have to maintain the north/south fly zones. This was costing us billions of dollars a year. In those years it was active, it probably costs us as much as the bill so far for OIF operations.

Just some points we can remember where goals the POTUS and DoS had in mind.
So perhaps we should not worry about how much Islam is ultimately going to rule their new government. If it is a mild form due to the checks and balances due to the main parties being of so many sects and cultures, they just may
end up finding a reasonable solution. Sort of like an American melting pot to some extent. And gee whiz they have hardly got started as of yet. I still am a bit amazed they are so close to a final constitutional draft. I give them credit for this. It took us a lot longer in the US if we remember. A lot longer. One thing seems for sure, the Butcher of Baghdad is going to be tried and convicted and then either hung or shot. Once him and his croonies are poping up daiseys, things further are going to settle down.
The Z-man is loosing ground. Who wants to blow themselves up in a car? A very small percent. They are getting more satellite news, channels from the outside world thanks to the BBC, and they are seeing how many Immans are starting to condemn terrorist attacks in all forms. So how much sway is a fanatic like Zarqawi going to have as time goes by?
The borders tighten, Syria may be forced to close down those terrorist camps soon or get a taste of humiliation, Bashir knows his ass is grassed if we have to go in and start taking out the camps and all known safehouse, and Ba'athist
HQs etc..
Perhaps I diverged, sorry, but I see the whole picture integrated often in a way that tells me at least, one must look at the over all picture and not squable to much over a given item. That is MHO.


10 posted on 07/19/2005 9:07:23 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
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To: Marine_Uncle

Much of that is true, but much of that isn't going to happen.
As far as fullfilling the main objectives, yes, we are near completion. Whatever happens, happens.
No doubt it will be a civil war before long, but we will remain close in case Iran tries to take over outright I'm sure.


13 posted on 07/19/2005 9:13:10 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Marine_Uncle
"Set up a democratic Iraq that would be stable, a good neighbor, act as an example of what Arabs can do in a good way if they are given the chance."

However, if they base it on Islamic law it WILL fail. Turkey has done a better job of it than any other muslim country and only because they have been relatively secular.

Anywhere there is muslim rule there is instability. If they adopt a muslim based constitution all our efforts were for naught.

It will soon revert to what we wanted out of there. Iran is the example of a islamic theocracy... we and the world don't need that.

I think they need more "guidence". Sadly, IMO we are however getting to the point of just rolling the dice and take what comes up.

Damn France and Jimmy Carter, the Shah was the best thing going for the M.E.
16 posted on 07/19/2005 9:51:06 PM PDT by JSteff
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