Posted on 07/17/2005 8:09:51 AM PDT by TheGeezer
Tell me again, why do I keep asking about Plame's covert status?
Because he is investigating something else. Is this a trick question?
No, not within the meaning of the 1982 statute that people have mentioned. But as I keep telling you, he isn't focused on this issue. He's focused on something else. Watch.
Also, covert agents don't allow their spouses to post their real names on their spouses' website. But that's what happened here. In July 2003, anyone who wanted to know Joe's wife's real name could find out on his website bio. It was there -- "Valerie Plame" -- for anyone who wanted to find out.
And moreover, before Novak published his original article, he cleared it with the CIA. Novak has said that he never would have published it if the CIA asked him not to reveal her name or role in the agency.
Why is the GJ looking at someone leaking the name of a NONCOVERT agent?
Why is someone going to jail to protect the identity of a source leaking the name of a NONCOVERT agent?
Why would you open a grand jury investigation if you already knew all of the facts?
An investigation is looking for facts to see if they support the theory of a crime.
If anything, you can't open a grand jury investigation if you AREN'T speculating; if you know all the facts, you indict and put the perp on trial.
On another note, I always enjoy folks going against the grain here on FR. It is my opinion, however, that you (an others trying to make something of this) will fall on your own sword over this Plame issue.
You are getting close to the truth. Wilson wanted a job with the Kerry campaign. The NYT article was a means to that end, and he also hoped that it would damage the Bush Administration. But he made one mistake. He apparently referred to classified Italian intelligence showing that the Niger claims were based on forged documents. The CIA didn't get that information until months after Wilson had returned from Africa.
Now, grasshopper, where do you think he got that information? THAT is what I think Fitzgerald is investigating. THAT'S why the CIA referred the case to the Justice Department. Someone in the CIA was trying to undercut Bush's case for the Iraq war by leaking classified information to Wilson. Guess who.
I answer this question down below in several places.
Wow, I'm sure I didn't make myself clear...I meant specifically to find information, oh, let's say like, who leaked the name of a COVERT agent!
Why would you open up a GJ investigation to find out who leaked the name of a CIA employee who was not covert, especially one that everyone in town KNEW was not covert!?
For asking a legitimate question and pointing to things that don't make sense?
There seems to be a reason for this GJ and if it's not to find out WHO leaked the name of a COVERT agent then what's it investigating, can you answer that?
I'm asking the question: Is this GJ investigating whether or not Plame was a covert agent at the time of an appearent leak of her name? If she wasn't COVERT then there's no need to investigate that is there?
So draw your own conclusions...
bttt
Cooper was questioned about Plame because that is what he testified about, that is what the documentation that was given to the prosecutor just days (or hours I forget) before. Up until that time, he had refused to devulge anything about his source.
Could minor Ambassador Joe Wilson himself have been the source in blowing his own Wife's cover?
It is distinctly possible, (though it may be unlikely that Joe Wilson himself directly was NY Times Judith Miller's source), since Joe Wilson himself evidently routinely bragged openly to strangers about her CIA employment, prior to such "cover" being "blown" in the press.
Here's an example of Joe's apparently routine and open bragging about Valerie being a "CIA agent," which became known directly to me over a year ago:
He certainly bragged about it per a famous and highly reliable source's (named below) account of his own face-to-face encounter with Amb. Joe Wilson prior to Valerie Plame's "outing" as a CIA agent/employee.
Based upon a personal conversation (we were in a small group eating; it was NOT an "off the record") I had with eminent historian Victor Davis Hanson (we were at a luncheon table together during a trip to Europe), it appeared entirely possible that Joe Wilson himself was the (or one source, if not the original one) possible source in revealing his own wife's status as a CIA agent or employee.
Victor Davis Hanson (Wilson presumably knew Victor Davis Hanson wrote regularly for NRO (National Review Online), had done OpEds for the Wall street Journal, and other publications, and had his own Website with a widespread following) said he (VDH) & Joe Wilson were both in the same "Green Room" before a televised debate-discussion on Iraq, etc. and Joe first warned the TV make-up person not to get powder on his $14,000 Rolex watch, then he bragged to Victor about several things (possessions and trips to Aspen, etc.), like his expensive car (I think it was a Mercedes), and then bragged about his beautiful wife who, Joe Wilson said (braggingly) was a CIA operative.
I asked Victor Davis Hanson Why he didn't write up this account.(?) He replied that Joe Wilson would probably simply deny it, since only he (VDH) & Joe Wilson were in the Green Room together before the broadcast.
However, it is now easy to surmise that Joe Wilson is a crass, materialistic, self-promoting, vain, egotistical, bragaddocio-opportunist, so this account is perfectly consistent with Valerie Plame's TWO photo shoots in Vanity Fair. (Or was it Vogue? No, probably too crass for Vogue, n'est pas?)
It is interesting, though, watching you backpedall and predend it's the rest of us not understanding your point, and then you go ahead and make a completely different point.
It would seem that if the question was, Did Rove talk to these people? that the question was answered 18 months ago when Rove gave permission to expose any conversations, now wouldn't it?
He looked stressed-out, though. Really taut.
Clinton's impeachment started as a look into Whitewater and became about lying under oath, for example.
Miller has no reason to NOT give up Rove or Libby. And people keep forgetting her previous claim to infamy--which, it seems to me, would be something Fitzgerald would be looking at in the course of finding how she's learned more than one "secret" about our intelligence operations.
Novak has cooperated; Cooper has cooperated; Rove has cooperated; so if the answer Fitzgerald is looking for is "Rove," why is Miller even an issue? For an unpublished story, which did NOT reveal anything to anyone because it never reached print? The only thing Miller did in the case of that article was talk to someone who leaked something; Fitzgerald wants to know who that was.
If he could hang Rove with Cooper and Novak, why would he need Miller? Why not proceed against Rove, which would only encourage Miller to give him up OR make her realize she's in this for the long haul (in which case she would sit tight for 18 months or however)?
At this stage the only thing I'm sure of is that Fitzgeral probably wants to get another SP to investigate the leaks in THIS investigation.
Look my tone was intended to be arrogant and shrill because I feel my point is not being considered legitimate. That's all.
The MSM&D are still reporting that she was undercover in spite of the evidence showing she wasn't. Some of them actually believe she was undercover. I doubt collectively on this issue they are knowingly lying, although I could seriously be wrong on this point alone, I feel the need to persue it.
Why do they believe Plame was undercover? What evidence are they looking at, I want to see it.
Also, people are pointing to Wilson's statement that she was not undercover, is there a transcipt of his statement somewhere out there?
Could minor Ambassador Joe Wilson himself have been the source in blowing his own Wife's cover?
It is distinctly possible, (though it may be unlikely that Joe Wilson himself directly was NY Times Judith Miller's source), since Joe Wilson himself evidently routinely bragged openly to strangers about her CIA employment, prior to such "cover" being "blown" in the press.
Here's an example of Joe's apparently routine and open bragging about Valerie being a "CIA agent," which became known directly to me over a year ago:
He certainly bragged about it per a famous and highly reliable source's (named below) account of his own face-to-face encounter with Amb. Joe Wilson prior to Valerie Plame's "outing" as a CIA agent/employee.
Based upon a personal conversation (we were in a small group eating; it was NOT an "off the record") I had with eminent historian Victor Davis Hanson (we were at a luncheon table together during a trip to Europe), it appeared entirely possible that Joe Wilson himself was the (or one source, if not the original one) possible source in revealing his own wife's status as a CIA agent or employee.
Victor Davis Hanson (Wilson presumably knew Victor Davis Hanson wrote regularly for NRO (National Review Online), had done OpEds for the Wall street Journal, and other publications, and had his own Website with a widespread following) said he (VDH) & Joe Wilson were both in the same "Green Room" before a televised debate-discussion on Iraq, etc. and Joe first warned the TV make-up person not to get powder on his $14,000 Rolex watch, then he bragged to Victor about several things (possessions and trips to Aspen, etc.), like his expensive car (I think it was a Mercedes), and then bragged about his beautiful ("hot") wife who, Joe Wilson said (braggingly) was a CIA operative.
I asked Victor Davis Hanson Why he didn't write up this account.(?) He replied that Joe Wilson would probably simply deny it, since only he (VDH) & Joe Wilson were in the Green Room together before the broadcast.
However, it is now easy to surmise that Joe Wilson is a crass, materialistic, self-promoting, vain, egotistical, bragaddocio-opportunist, so this account is perfectly consistent with Valerie Plame's TWO photo shoots in Vanity Fair. (Or was it Vogue? No, probably too crass for Vogue, n'est pas?)
If there is a crime there, Fitzgerald will indict the perpetrator. He doesn't care who did it. I think that he's a modern Dick Tracy.
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