Posted on 07/15/2005 8:37:10 AM PDT by The Old Hoosier
While many news sources report it as fact, it is very unclear what Valerie Plame's status is/was. Here's the most important part of Wilson's interview from last night. In order to protect himself from criticism about the Vanity Fair photo shoot, the book deal, and his generally self-aggrandizing, self-enriching behavior since July 2003, Wilson admits that his wife was not a covert agent:
BLITZER: But the other argument that's been made against you is that you've sought to capitalize on this extravaganza, having that photo shoot with your wife, who was a clandestine officer of the CIA, and that you've tried to enrich yourself writing this book and all of that.
What do you make of those accusations, which are serious accusations, as you know, that have been leveled against you.
WILSON: My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity.
BLITZER: But she hadn't been a clandestine officer for some time before that?
WILSON: That's not anything that I can talk about. And, indeed, I'll go back to what I said earlier, the CIA believed that a possible crime had been committed, and that's why they referred it to the Justice Department.
She was not a clandestine officer at the time that that article in Vanity Fair appeared. And I have every right to have the American public know who I am and not to have myself defined by those who would write the sorts of things that are coming out, being spewed out of the mouths of the RNC...
The addresses are comprehensive except for the name change thing. But it was stated in many places that Plame used her own name. As for the offices, there was never any Boston office, and never any record anywhere in business databases or the internet of any other offices. I am simply assuming she would have needed to look like a regular employee of a regular company with a regular address that appears in these databases. Otherwise she would be suspect would she not? What would Plame say to a contact who asks her who she works for? What if that contact looks up the company she supposedly works for?
How do you know?
So I'm not real sold on the assertion that the info is 'comprehensive.'
Let me give you a concrete example. She goes to abroad to find out about WMD's. She is asked who she is, who she works for. They look it up and discover the place she works at is a ficticious address. Do you expect they would not look it up? Or is she supposed to say "it's secret, I can't tell you"?
Frankly, I think anyone who is making judgments about the quality of Plame's cover based upon what they can find on the internet after that cover ceases to exist is making some significant assumptions that probably aren't valid.
How do you know this? And how do you know there wasn't one somewhere else?
The problem is that Rove never said that she was CIA at the time she worked for Brewster-Jennings. The info that she worked for BJ came from some other source. Whatever problems came from publicizing that connection cannot be blamed on Rove
I poked around in wayback, didn't see anything, please post if you find something. My only assumption is that cover is publicly recorded information that would still be around like any other. If were not, if it were different in any way, it would raise suspicion and would therefore be useless. I don't think that's an unreasonable assumption.
I agree with you, from the standpoint of criminal law. The point is that he could have given out information which allowed enterprising reporters to find a lot more information that would have been meaningless without the Valerie Plame = CIA connection. Not criminal. But it stinks. Not so much for Plame, as for any colleagues or contacts who are exposed collaterally.
Me, too. And found nothing. My impression was that having absolutely nothing available indicates that it has been cleansed. I can hardly imagine a D&B registered company would bring up not a single hit.
It actually came from only one other source, FEC records which are not fact checked. They simply print up whatever a candidiate submits which is whatever a person says. That's one reason why this NOC is unrealistic, there's no other source of BJ information besides that one FEC entry and the D&B record.
Yes, cleansed is possible. However, that would itself raise suspicions if someone bothered to look before and after. My assumption (again) is that NOCs are made to look normal as in normal companies that exist and then go out of business with the usual paperwork need to do so.
Wilson Falsely Claimed That It Was Vice President Cheney Who Sent Him To Niger, But The Vice President Has Said He Never Met Him And Didn’t Know Who Sent Him:
Wilson Says He Traveled To Niger At CIA Request To Help Provide Response To Vice President’s Office. “In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney’s office had questions about a particular intelligence report. … The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office.” (Joseph C. Wilson, Op-Ed, “What I Didn’t Find In Africa,” The New York Times, 7/6/03)
Joe Wilson: “What They Did, What The Office Of The Vice President Did, And, In Fact, I Believe Now From Mr. Libby’s Statement, It Was Probably The Vice President Himself ...” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 8/3/03)
Vice President Cheney: “I Don’t Know Joe Wilson. I’ve Never Met Joe Wilson. … And Joe Wilson - I Don’t [Know] Who Sent Joe Wilson. He Never Submitted A Report That I Ever Saw When He Came Back.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 9/14/03)
Go read the unedited version of the 8/3/03 CNN interview, then come back and tell me that you think it says what you are claiming here.
Agreed - while the cover is up and running. After it is blown, I imagine they wouldn't want anyone picking through the debris to see what they could find.
Give it up lug...grand jury information is leaking furiously now... Rove testified that he learned the about the employment of Wilson's wife with the CIA from....the press. He didn't give this information to the press....at least two press sources gave it to ROVE!, That is likely why Judith Miller sits in jail, defending her own honor.
And face it- a woman who reveals her CIA employment while in the sweaty grope of a 3rd date "heavy makeout session" (which her husband has published in his book).... is no Mata Hari.
LMAO-
I think your assumption that they could perform such a cleanup is speculative and untestable, and the disappearance of a company could easily raise suspicion. OTOH, if they are successful in such an operation, it could save a few agents in cases like this...
I've been observing your exchange with interest.
I don't work for the CIA, but I know a teeny bit about it...
Mrs. Wilson may have been a covert operative in her career. However, because she has not lived or worked overseas since at least her marriage to Wilson in 1998. By definition, she COULD NOT be a NOC at any time even remotely connected to the Novak story, as there are no operatives based in the US. It is illegal. Further, she wasn't UNDER COVER, as she openly worked at Langley! Her cover COULD NOT HAVE BEEN BLOWN by this story!!
Most NOCs actually do work for real companies. It is a myth to believe that elaborate cover stories are created with fictional companies, etc...on a routine basis. That's James Bond type spy mythology!
It was common knowledge that she worked for the CIA. It's common knowledge that secretaries, analysists, linguists, etc... work there too. It's not a real big secret unless you are covert. A true covert operative is not known to work for them, usually for their entire career. That's why there are only stars in the memorial book in Langley. Even after death, they remain covert; or at least their ties to the CIA are not made known even if their identity is.
Hope this helps. If you have any questions, ask away!!
Read it...unfortunately, Joe Wilson has changed his story about his and her roles in all of this...more often than Saddam has changed his underwear since being captured.
The Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee after exhaustive review of all the Niger story, basically declared Wilson to be a liar. He's a perfect poster boy for the hysterical left unless and until the "press" gets critical about pinning him down on his inconsistencies.
With all his mammoth ego about his "uranium expertise" and "Africa expertise" you'd think he'd know that the Iraqis acquired Nigerien uranium in the late 70's...not in the 1980's. In fact, that is how the Iraqis fueled their French-built reactor at Osirak that the Israelis obligingly blew up in 1981, days before it went online.
If I was his wife I'd dump him out of embarrassment. I bet she didn't expect he'd be using her to score political points and look like a big man, once he retired.
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