"A Massive Economic Development Boom" That's what legalizing undocumented immigrants would unleash

business week ^ | 7-18-05

[bayourod]

----SNIP----

Q: How is the undocumented immigrant community affecting the U.S. economy? A: First and foremost, it's a source of value added. The total goods and services that they consume through their paycheck, plus all that they produce for their employers, is close to about $800 billion.

They're also producing at relatively lower costs because the undocumented population typically gets about 20% less in wages than if they were legalized. That leads to lower prices for us and higher profits to employers.

In addition, they're obviously a huge consumer base. We've seen that 90% of the wages that the undocumented population gets are spent inside the U.S. Remittances are sent abroad, but that only represents about 10% of immigrants' income. The numbers are becoming quite huge. We estimate about $50 billion dollars in remittances this year. That means that total consumptive capacity remaining in the U.S. is $400 billion to $450 billion.

[bayourod]

" insults are much more productive than reason. "

We saw that from the Buchanan supporters during the 2000 election period, but isn't it a little too soon for the Tancredo people to start it?

[bayourod]

See my profile page if you are curious about me.

[skeeter]

We saw that from the Buchanan supporters during the 2000 election period, but isn't it a little too soon for the Tancredo people to start it?

Stick with the propaganda - humor ain't your forte.

[FastCoyote]

You are so full of it, as is business week. If the low level immigrants were so great, we should import all of Mexico. But then we would BE Mexico, a cesspool. I don't know why you don't give it up bayourod

[bayourod]

"If the low level immigrants were so great, we should import all of Mexico."

Is that supposed to be an intelligent comment? Apparently all of the arguments of the Antis have been so throughly refuted that they have nothing left to post except insults and absurdities.

[FastCoyote]

"Is that supposed to be an intelligent comment?"

No, it isn't supposed to be a particularly intelligent comment, it is however an obvious one and one that is above your head. Your points have been refuted endlessly on each and every thread you post on. So now we have come to the point where THE RULE must be invoked: Never argue with crazy people.

"Apparently all of the arguments of the Antis have been so throughly refuted that they have nothing left to post except insults and absurdities."

I deal with illegals most days of the week, if you believe they are not a problem, simply post your address and I will send a bunch your way to squat on your property. And no, that's not a ridiculous comment (to preempt your rebuttal). You are the one who believes we should greet the illegals with open arms because they are such a boon to humanity (and without concern for being inundated by their numbers or quality). Theefore, you should have no problem with illegals overwhelming your goodwill - since that is what you propose for the rest of us that have to live with the consequences of illegals.

[FastCoyote]

"I don't hire illegals, don't know any illegals that I know of, "

Quoted from your profile. That sure shows you how clueless you are, if you don't even know an illegal. Let me introduce you to a thousand of them some time. I speak Spanish fluently, I hope you do to and can understand when some pandillero calls you a pinche cabron down in the barrio.

[bayourod]

"That sure shows you how clueless you are, if you don't even know an illegal. Let me introduce you to a thousand of them some time. "

.

Why would I be clueless about something if I don't know any illegal immigrants?

Although there are an estimated 400,000 illegals in my county, I don't work construction sites. But that doesn't mean that I don't know that they are essential to the construction industry here.

The landscaping company I use is owned by a man with an Irish name and Texas accent. I don't know his employees, or whether they are illegals, but I know the job they do.

I don't know any of the waiters who wait on me at restaurants.
I don't know the men who pick up my garbage.
I don't know the men who repair the streets in my area.
I don't know the men who work at the car wash.
I don't know the clerks at the stores where I shop.
I don't hang out in Mexican Cantinas or attend an Hispanic chrch.

I do have a lot of contact with businessmen who are apparently first generation immigrants. One, an engineer, was awarded a commendation by President Bush for his work with the Commission on Terrorism. Most are Indians and Pakistani. Some are Viet Namese. A few are Hispanic. A few are Africans. One is British. One is Australian. But I would be very surprised if any of them were illegal aliens.

Do you know a lot of illegal aliens? How do you know them? Do you ask people to see their papers? How do you know they are illegal?

[FBD]

>"There would be very little cultural change even if all the 11 million illegals who are already here earned guest worker status."<
-You know darn well that there will be millions more coming, and millions more after that. The problem is; they are all coming from virtually one country: Mexico.

---

Perhaps you missed that this:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1442359/posts

"...former Mexican Foreign Minister Jorge Castaneda told a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing that "No border security is possible without Mexican cooperation" and that "there can be no cooperation [from the Mexican government] without some sort of immigration reform package." Castaneda went on to call for:


"immigration reform as amnesty for all Mexicans living illegally in the U.S., the admission of some 5 million additional Mexican citizens to the U.S. over the next ten years"

---

You'll ignore that and this fact I'm sure, that these immigrants from Mexico aren't assimilating anymore, they are retaining their Spanish language, and their loyalty is to the Mexican culture, not to our distinct American one.

>"Remember they are already here. The cultural impact has already been felt. Many of the illegals are minor children who have attended several years of public school and already speak good English, shop at The Gap, eat Dominoes Pizza, play basketball, talk with their friends on their cell phones, listen to grunge music and watch MTV"<


-I had to go to traffic court to pay for a ticket(for a minor infraction) There were about a dozen young (16 to 20 + years old) Hispanics there, and most of them could not speak English. None of them were there for infractions, my Friend. This small County court has a full time Spanish translator, to help Hispanics, for infractions such as drunk/reckless driving, no insurance, driving without a license, etc. None of these folks had their own lawyer, and the court was paying for a translator.

You want to tell me that these folks are an asset to our country? Most of these kids had jobs of some sort, as the judge asked them. Yes, yes I know that we have natives who are just as bad. But instead of adding the best of the best, or the cream of the crop to our country's citizens, we are getting some of the worst. These folks have no interest in assimilating, or for that matter, obeying our laws.


>"Remember they are already here. The cultural impact has already been felt. Many of the illegals are minor children who have attended several years of public school and already speak good English, shop at The Gap, eat Dominoes Pizza, play basketball, talk with their friends on their cell phones, listen to grunge music and watch MTV."<

-Then why do we have bilingual (ESL) classes for the Hipanic kids? Why do the courts have Spanish interprters? My Scandinavian friends and family weren't provided interpreters, etc. They had to learn English, and assimilate.

Why is it Rod, that whenever I make a phone call to just about anywhere anymore, I am asked to "Press 1 for English, or 2 for Espanol"? You call that assimilation?

Oh yeah, and I neglected to tell you those kids in courts were all wearing decent clothes...bully for the Gap. But I suppose that makes me anti-business, eh?

>"11 million already here is only about 3.5% of our population and the influx of new immigrants is less than 1% annually. That's a far cry from 20 million Americans immigrating to France in 1787."<

-It was an analogy, the exact numbers aren't as important as his point about assimilation. A point that I guess you couldn't (or won't try to) grasp.

We are witnessing the balkanization of our country, with many groups of young Hispanics joining groups like MEchA and La Raza, etc. They view SW USA as Aztlan, not the United States of America. They do not want to assimilate.

---

From your other post to me;

>"FBD, you might want to explain to cartman90210 how you determined that the people in your pictures at
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1440917/posts?page=111#111 are illegals.

He's interested in profiling."<

_Funny. I don't know who they are, and I doubt Cartman90210 wants to do what you say he wants; but I can tell you this: Thse Hispanic protesters aren't interested in the sovereignty of the United States, or the protection of our country.
They carried signs that bashed Bush, and they called this country "Aztlan".

You want to defend that? Fact is, they don't and won't vote Republican, and by your own tagline "Unless we get 40% of the Hispanic vote..." reveals that you know the other 60% are voting for liberal Democrats. In one of those pictures, these Pro-illegal Hispanic immigration marchers were walking with Tom Hayden, who is a communist.

One of their signs say: "No border is legitimate."
Is that something you agree with?

---

Read Jefferson's quote again, then read this quote by Mario Obledo, or the quote by Charles Truxillo, a professor of "Chicano studies" at the U. of NM.

"They will bring with them the principles of the governments they leave, imbibed in their early youth; or, if able to throw them off, it will be in exchange for an unbounded licentiousness, passing, as is usual, from one extreme to another. It would be a miracle were they to stop precisely at the point of temperate liberty.

These principles, with their language, they will transmit to their children. In proportion to their numbers, they will share with us the legislation. They will infuse into it their spirit, warp and bias its direction, and render it a heterogeneous, incoherent, distracted mass."~ Thomas Jefferson (on excessive and unlimited immigration from a single country)

---

Try and let that sink in, before you post more B.S. back to me.

[DoctorMichael]

"......Remember they are already here..........."

So what.

And these criminals need to be sent home!

........Immediately! .......And the borders need to be closed!

My proposal: $10 bounty on each Illegal Criminal Alien turned in. If there are 10 million of them then we can solve the problem for $100 million. Cheap by any means!

Then we begin construction of the Moat!

[bayourod]

"-You know darn well that there will be millions more coming, "

Only if the demand for their labor is here. Once demand is met with guest workers there won't be any incentive for more to come. (And no, they aren't eliginble for welfare)

No one has ever explained how President Bush's proposal would encourage more immigrants to come.

The only thing I can see that would encourage more illegals is the constant screaming of the Buchanan/Tancredo crowd that amnesty is on the way.

Your immigration myths and personal account of seeing a dozen men of Hispanic origin in traffic court isn't probative of anything.

[bayourod]

"My proposal: $10 bounty on each Illegal Criminal Alien turned in."

Your time certainly isn't worth much. I wouldn't do anything for $10 an hour and it would take more than an hour to capture, turn in, fill out the paper work and collect the reward. The parking fees for the lots near the federal building are more than $10.00.

Another unworkable solution by an anti-illegal.

[skeeter]

Only if the demand for their labor is here. Once demand is met with guest workers there won't be any incentive for more to come. (And no, they aren't eliginble for welfare)

BS. As is typical, you left out the REAL root cause for illegal immigration, or at least, the other half of the economic equation.

As long as there is someone available who'll work for less, come they will.

Don't bother responding, my comment is for those susceptable to reason.

[FBD]

>"Whaaaaaaaat???
You doubt the word of *Landru*????"<
- Nah, not usually...just being contrary! ;^D

>"In hindsight it was more anecdotal than anything, based on an isolated instance and certainly nothing I should've said to make a point with one so solidly prepared with the facts & figures like *you*."<

- What? Giving up so easy? ;^D that's no fun! But ya did patronize me there, I think, as all I provided was anecdotal evidence as well...I'm on to ya Lan.

>"For that reason I'll withdraw it.
There.
Happy? {g}"<

-Hmmmm give ma a minute....nope; I'm still feeling contrary!
;^D

"Are you saying a public utility hired an illegal & you witnessed it first-hand?
Hmmmm"

-Nope. I din't say they were "illegal" I said they were "immigrants from Mexico." The guys on the crew would joke about the one guy from Mexico who was incredibly lazy. I recall the crew leader saying: "Yup, Juan pretty much defies the hard working Hispanic stereotype!"

[Czar]

"No one I know in the development industry here will unashamedly hire illegals...that's a start...too bad our political leaders aren't awake."

You're doing far better there than we're doing here in California, especially SoCal which is well on the way to Balkanization thanks to our feckless federal government and the gaggle of third world activists that are burrowed in around here.

[DoctorMichael]

......Another unworkable solution by an anti-illegal.........

Another counter-argument by a Pro-criminal here at FR.

[FastCoyote]

"Do you know a lot of illegal aliens? How do you know them? Do you ask people to see their papers? How do you know they are illegal?"

I helped start a Spanish TV station, so I know illegals personally because they tell me outright, and I run into them daily at the burrito shops I eat at, and there is a growing barrio a mile from where I live and the cleaning lady (and her 7 siblings) at the office complex is illegal and and and and - I could go on forever.

Let me ask you, do you have to look up a woman's skirt, or look at her drivers license to tell she is a woman? Given your inability to spot ANY illegals, I suspect you might have problems with simple acts of visual discrimination.

You'd have to be willfully ignorant to not be able to spot illegals. Therefore you are a waste of time, other than to point you out to occasional the lurkers here. By the way, you haven't posted your address so you can show everyone how generous you are when threatened with being inundated by illegals.

[FBD]

As I suspected, you blithely ignored the comments by the professor, the former Mexican foreign minister, and Mario Obledo. Here they are again:

"...former Mexican Foreign Minister Jorge Castaneda told a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearingthat "No border security is possible without Mexican cooperation" and that "there can be no cooperation [from the Mexican government] without some sort of immigration reform package." Castaneda (former Mexican foreign Minister)..."went on to describe immigration reform as amnesty for all Mexicans living illegally in the U.S., the admission of some 5 million additional Mexican citizens to the U.S. over the next ten years, and massive increases in U.S. aid to that country."

You want to comment on that? Or the statements below? or do you want to continue to IGNORE them?

---

How abot these?
"California is going to be a Hispanic state.
Anyone who doesn't like it should leave"

"According to Charles Truxillo, a professor of Chicano studies at the University of New Mexico, a sovereign Hispanic nation straddling the border between the United States and Mexico is an inevibilty."

You want to call the above people "Buchananites"?

[FastCoyote]

"My proposal: $10 bounty on each Illegal Criminal Alien turned in."

[Your time certainly isn't worth much. I wouldn't do anything for $10 an hour ]

Except I could turn in a hundred in an hour, so $1000 an hour isn't bad.

[bayourod]

"As long as there is someone available who'll work for less, come they will."

Typical anti-business, anti-free market, liberal socialist attitude.

Even your evil greedy employers have to compete for good employees and they have to pay the market rate. Good legal employees can command the market rate (or more).

Once we have ensured that our legal labor market is large enough to sustain our economic growth we can afford to start enforcing laws against companies that hire illegals.

American companies don't like having to rely upon illegal employees and Mexican immigrants don't like having to live here and work here illegally.

The idea that neither employers nor employees will take advantage of a guest worker program is just another immigration myth promulgated by the Buchanan/Tancredo type Antis.

By the way. The Antis claim that they have no problem with legal immigrants, it's only the illegal ones that they oppose. But yet the Antis oppose any type immigration reform that would substitute legal workers for illegal ones. It's hard not to suspect that their real agenda is motivated by their anti-Bush, anti-business, anti-trade, anti-Republican, anti-growth mentality.