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To: MACVSOG68
A couple of quick points - it is Christian theology to hold that God is the ultimate, supreme judge. At the end of time, you and I and every person that has ever lived will be judged. We will be judged by God's standard, the only true and legitimate one.

That's why the Civil Rights movement pointed to the God of the Bible in making their case for equality. That's why we point today to the God of the Bible when making our case for the unborn or religious freedom. So God is the ultimate judge, and we know what God's values are through His Bible. So as I said before I would certainly favor judges that recognize God's sovereignty, because I think my freedoms are much safer that way.

If religion is a religion of and for the individual as you say, why does it have to permeate our government and its policies?

That's a great question, and goes to the heart of where you and I disagree. Receiving Christ must be done individually. Acceptance or rejection of Christ's forgiveness is a personal decision. Yet God's jurisdiction does not end in the human heart. His jurisdiction is the whole world which He created. Once they believe, Christ orders his followers to bring their Christianity to bear into every aspect of their lives. Thus Christians are, as Christ said, "the salt of the earth" and "the light of the world." Christians are everywhere, and are doing everything. When we are following Christ, everything we do should be for His glory. Thus Christianity is personal, but not private. That is why I am involved in politics explicitly as a Christian. I could not do otherwise and remain true to my Lord.

But the population of the US is still by far Christian!

I very much disagree. The statistics you site prove only that a sizable number of people attend church or claim to "be a Christian." It does not prove that even a majority of Christians have explicitly asked for forgiveness through Jesus Christ and been born again. That is what a Christian is, regardless of what people say. The United States is more secular humanist now than at any time in its history. That it still remains the most Christian-influenced society on earth really isn't saying much. The fundamental premise from which we as a culture reason is humanistic and Darwinist to the core. Our loss of freedoms to socialism can be tied directly to this as well, I believe.

A year or two ago, I was on several threads relating to the religious movement to secede and establish a Christian nation.

I don't take that sort of thing too terribly seriously.

47 posted on 07/12/2005 10:47:24 AM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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To: Zack Nguyen
A couple of quick points - it is Christian theology to hold that God is the ultimate, supreme judge. At the end of time, you and I and every person that has ever lived will be judged. We will be judged by God's standard, the only true and legitimate one.

And that's the wonderful thing about America. You can believe and openly profess that, and those of other faiths and beliefs can do the same without any penalty.

That's why the Civil Rights movement pointed to the God of the Bible in making their case for equality. That's why we point today to the God of the Bible when making our case for the unborn or religious freedom.

Two quick points. First, one cannot acknowledge the impact to history of Christianity. Christianity has offered much to the world, but its history has not been without its infamies as I have pointed out earlier. Second, there are many who fully support civil rights for all, and who oppose abortion who are not Christians. Respect for life does not require a specific religious philosophy.

So as I said before I would certainly favor judges that recognize God's sovereignty, because I think my freedoms are much safer that way.

And I know that if we confirm a justice with respect for the Constitution as it was written, not as it one would like it to be, then I know my freedoms are protected.

Christ orders his followers to bring their Christianity to bear into every aspect of their lives. Thus Christians are, as Christ said, "the salt of the earth" and "the light of the world."

You see that's my point. You say Christianity is personal, yet you lay the foundation for its infusion into the secular government.

I very much disagree. The statistics you site prove only that a sizable number of people attend church or claim to "be a Christian." It does not prove that even a majority of Christians have explicitly asked for forgiveness through Jesus Christ and been born again. That is what a Christian is, regardless of what people say.

Once again, you state the problem succinctly. Christianity is not what most Christians believe it is, only the "born again" Christians. And what of Catholics, the largest Christian religion? You believe that the problems we face today are the result of a sharp decrease in Christianity. Yet the Christianity you profess has never been significant in a country that is almost entirely Christian. I'm confused!

I don't take that sort of thing too terribly seriously.

I take anyone who wants to bring his religion into my government seriously, no matter how radical.

54 posted on 07/12/2005 11:41:26 AM PDT by MACVSOG68
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