Posted on 07/08/2005 6:49:24 AM PDT by summer
I understand your concern. I think your support for government involvement is misguided.
It's the inner-city schools who most often have fathers who don't. That's why young men need to be trained to be good fathers.
True. Private groups will succeed or not without force based "solutions".
You must know there's no such thing as separation of church and state in the Constitution.
I know what the first amendment says.
That theory was written by Thomas Jefferson to a pastor in a letter.
Correct. And his opinion was a good explanation of an excellent idea.
Our earliest schools were formed by Christians, colleges as well.
Correct. All private.
The early schoolbooks were full of references to God.
No reason not to be.
We've come a long way from that, sadly.
It is sad indeed.
Sarcasm as a literary device to make a point. But it's moot. Carry on.
I would love to see the abolition of government schools.
Yes, when you said conservatives are partly 'kindred spirits' with liberals. Moderates in both parties have made Democrats and Republicans somewhat of kindred spirits, but not Liberals and Conservatives.
Conservatives are a minority subset of Republicans.... Actually, true conservatives are quite separate from any political party and are only interested in them in as much as they advance conservative principles. A real conservative will work for the election of any conservative person irrespective of affiliation.
Conservatives are by in large supportive of the Republican party but do support some third party efforts. They are definitely not Democrats. Conservatives work within the Republican party, but sometimes go elsewhere out of frustration.
And conservatives are consistant....Ummm, not in the way you suggest.
Yes, they are consistant to their values, maybe not your values, but still consistant.
They value God...Many conservatives on this forum are atheists. So, that seems to be incorrect as stated.
Many? I don't think so. There may be a few exceptions to the rule, but even those still value religious principles.
family....Many liberals value families as well.
Two men and a goat?
and liberty....I have met many on this forum who are uninterested in liberty. They value order more. They value "group interests" more when it comes to many subjects.
Certainly, that is because conservatives tend to value God and family above liberty. That does not mean they are uninterested in liberty, just they tend to put God and family above liberty. When you have competing values, they tend to have to make tradeoffs, but that is not being inconsistant. It is just a more complex value system then just viewing everything in terms of liberty.
Our schools were different when we were growing up. It wasn't all PC and sex education (i.e., homosexuality is goood, try it!) and political crap. I'm all for homeschooling and private, christian schools but private schools are expensive. Our church has one and even though it's cheaper than most, it's still costly. And some people are not cut out for homeschooling. My grandsons have suffered terribly from being homeschooled. My ex-daughter-in-law was not disciplined and they learned very little. All are having terrible times in school. I wish life could be as it was back when I was young, but it never will be again.
No I didn't. They are in some ways and I'm not confused about it.
Moderates in both parties have made Democrats and Republicans somewhat of kindred spirits, but not Liberals and Conservatives.
I disagree. Conservatives and liberals both advocate government force be used to achieve their respective goals. In that way, they are kindred spirits. Is George Bush conservative?
But how many of us can or would address the problem? I don't like government schools any more than any other conservative here. I don't like government interfering with my life in any way, but it's going to and will continue to do so unless we have a full-blown revolution.
In addition to your innaccuracy about the "crowning" comment (or do we call it "sarcasm") I had noticed how you had engaged in personal comments even though innaccurately denying it well before post #83 summed it up.
My husband was a good man, but an alcoholic. It ruined his life and harmed his children. I was harmed as well, but I'm stubborn and kept moving forward. I try not to think of the past but it does rear its ugly head now and then. I've tried hard not to have hatred or resentment toward him. He died an alcoholic and it was a real time of grief for me. I always loved him but it was hard to put up with that kind of life. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Going to church and getting involved there was my salvation. My children went as well, although none of them attend church regularly now.
True, but how they evolved was predictable.
but private schools are expensive
Actually, they are less expensive than government schools. By quite a bit I might add. (don't confuse being forced to pay for your children's education twice as being expensive. If you only had to pay for it once, you would see the difference.
If you have a comment on the topic, make it, otherwise, this personal nonsense is boring. Goodbye 'til then.
We need a full blown revolution. But it need not be violent.
It happened in the former USSR. It can happen here. But it will not happen if conservatives keep signing on to "programs". They are surrendering without even realizing it.
I don't like to meander all over the landscape. I've pointed out two areas in which you have been wrong.
You need to visit more threads. There doesn't seem to be any consensus on what a conservative is.
Many? I don't think so. There may be a few exceptions to the rule, but even those still value religious principles.
I'll ping you to the threads. You have much to learn about the different kinds of conservatives. I can assure you, you will have your hands full with the atheists here.
Two men and a goat?
A flip comment. Are you saying you don't know there are many liberals who value families? (They may be misguided in how to approach them)
Certainly, that is because conservatives tend to value God and family above liberty.
Again, you seem to think conservatism has something to do with religion. You are incorrect. Many conservatives are religious, but that is not the same as needing to be religious to be conservative.
I'm not the topic. It is listed at the top of the page. Comment on it if you have anything to add. Otherwise, it's just noise.
Yes, I have seen alcoholism ruin many a life. It's one reason why I have never touched it (though I don't care if others do socially). Yes, the Church can be a haven. It has been for me at times too in my darkest moments.
I don't know what I would do without Christ and my church family and, of course, my beloved husband/nurturer (the second one, that is). I've had a tough few years healthwise but they've all kept me going. Love, Mxxx
No...but Jeb Bush is. And you were wrong concerning him.
Also, you were extremely wrong when you claimed not to have engaged in personal attacks. So it's quite laughable when you accuse others of becoming personal.
I can see by your methods of debate that you are a person who itches to have the last word. So I will let you have it.
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