ADOPTION OF CHRISTIANITY IN RUSSIA

Vor.ru ^ | 11/12/2004 | Tatyana Shvetsova

[RusIvan]

When the Ukrainian King introduced Christianity to Kiev in 982AD, Muscovy was a small fur trading outpost. ==

Get educated please.

There wasn't such thing as "ukranian king". "Ukraine" in those time was the territory of Northern Rus. Moscow was part of that "ukraine" of those time.
"Ukraine" on ancient russian so as on modern means the border provintia of state.

It was Kiev Rus' Great Duke Vladimir who baptisied Kiev Rus in 982AD.

[jb6]

You supported Leo's idiotic claims, your blind statements up top, that Moscow and thus Russians have nothing to do with Kieven Russ (except that almost all European Russian cities, to include Moscow were central in Kieven Russ). Second, where do you think the name Russian comes from. The slavic name of Kieven Russ is Kievski Russ, the slavic name for Russia is Russiya, or in other words the Russes, as in the lands of the Russ.

Gads, it's good to know a bit of the language when posting.

Are you denying that Ukraine and other countries should be independent from Russia?

Nope, that's first of all your addition. Second of all, its up to the people in those lands. If parts want to reunify with Russia, it's there right if parts don't, equally their right.

The Russian Communists ripped out microphones in the Ukraine Congress today to stop the passage of trade reforms

The Russian communists? Oh, you mean Gregory and his party of communists flew to Ukraine, went into the Rada and ripped out the microphones?

Oh wait:

KIEV, Ukraine -- Communists and pro-government lawmakers threw punches at each other Wednesday during an angry debate in the Ukrainian parliament over a package of bills needed for entry to the World Trade Organization.

Well, seems that these were Ukrainian communists: which means one of two things: either you don't understand that none Russians can be communists (Yes, Marx and Ingel weren't Russians either) or you purposely lied and mistated the facts. Now which is it?

As for your other article, to begin with, the fact you're reading Pravda, a communist tabloid says a lot. I particularly found their other articles interesting:

Olympic Erotica 2004
American fashion model seduced famous Ukrainian soccer player Shevchenko.
EU to assign 10 million euros to build underground passages for toads and frogs in Ukraine
Mothers-in-law make men sexually useless
Oh, but this one is the best: Russian scientist deciphers message from aliens, which he found on Earth

Furthermore, as for the article itself:

Yury Dyashchenko, 50, set his shirt ablaze, but then quickly took it off and put out the fire, leaving his hair slightly singed. Police, who brought reinforcements along with two ambulances, had tried to negotiate with the group earlier but backed off after another man doused himself with gasoline, reports the AP. The protesters accused President Viktor Yushchenko and his new government of failing to fulfill pledges to crack down on rampant corruption among state authorities. Dyashchenko, a lawyer from eastern Ukraine, accused a local mayor of stealing his company in early 1990s. He said all his attempts to reclaim his property in the court have failed because of corruption. "Everything is corrupted and with new people in power it turned from bad to worse," he said. Another man, Viktor Lavrynych, 42, said that "the courts are violating the laws in most of Ukraine. "I supported Yushchenko but nothing has been changed," he said.

if you had bothered to read it, these guys voted for Yushchenko and are now disappointed. Not exactly what you played it up as. So once again, either you didn't bother to read the article or you are lieing on purpose. Which is it?

Finally, why do you resort to sexually implicit cursing when defending your religious history posts? I refer to "S_uck on it"

Try again. Suck on a piece of lemon, tart isn't it. That's the expression I expect on your face once you get disproven, as usual.

[jb6]

The Ukrainian King? Where exactly was Ukraine then? Do you understand (I know you don't) what Ukraine means? Kraine is the edge, the edge of civilization, such as Kraine in Croatia which was a Serb settlement under the Austrians, on the edge of the Turk lands, thus the edge of civilization (since islamics weren't considered civilized and most still aren't).

Ukraine, at that time was on the finish borders, today's Belarus. Gads, why don't you study something outside your hate filled conspiracy threads before posting. This isn't even challenging.

Further east in the Carpathians, Christianity was introduced even earlier in an area that is now Poland. Will your map of "Russia " now extend to Kracow?

Silly strawman at best.

[jb6]

If you read his posts, the lack of knowledge is quite blatant.

[MarMema]

Yes it sounds like you have definitely seen some of Russia.

[MarMema]

My regards to your father.

[sergey1973]

Below is a good summary of Kievan Rus--it was neither Russia, Ukraine or Belarus, but medieval East Slav state led by Viking descendants (Rus) from Kiev and it covered modern NorthWestern Russia, most of Ukraine and Belarus.
After break up of Kievan Rus in 12th century and subsequent invasions by Mongols, Polish Lithuanian Kingdom, etc. it evolved into 3 separate nations--Russians, Ukrainians and Belarussians. That's historical fact. Now they are separate nation-states and should respect each other borders and sovereignty. If some nutcases use Kievan Rus as a justification to "reunite" Russia, Ukraine and Belarus, this is certainly a dangerous avanturistic position. But it does not mean that history should be rewritten.


http://www.bartleby.com/65/ki/KievanRu.html

k´fn) (KEY) , medieval state of the Eastern Slavs. It was the earliest predecessor of modern Ukraine and Russia. Flourishing from the 10th to the 13th cent., it included nearly all of present-day Ukraine and Belarus and part of NW European Russia, extending as far N as Novgorod and Vladimir. According to the Russian Primary Chronicle, a medieval history, the Varangian Rurik established himself at Novgorod c.862 and founded a dynasty. His successor, Oleg or Oleh (d. c.912), shifted his attention to the south, seized Kiev (c.879), and established the new Kievan state. The Varangians were also known as Rus or Rhos; it is possible that this name was early extended to the Slavs of the Kievan state, which became known as Kievan Rus. Other theories trace the name Rus to a Slavic origin. Oleg united the Eastern Slavs and freed them from the suzerainty of the Khazars. His successors were Igor or Ihor (reigned 912–45) and Igor’s widow, St. Olga or Olha, who was regent until about 962. Under Olga’s son, Sviatoslav or Svyatoslav (d. 972), the Khazars were crushed, and Kievan power was extended to the lower Volga and N Caucasus. Christianity was introduced by Vladimir I or Volodymyr I (reigned 980–1015), who adopted (c.989) Greek Orthodoxy from the Byzantines. The reign (1019–54) of Vladimir’s son, Yaroslav the Wise, represented the political and cultural apex of Kievan Rus. After his death the state was divided into principalities ruled by his sons; this soon led to civil strife. A last effort for unity was made by Vladimir II or Volodymyr II (reigned 1113–25), but the perpetual princely strife and the devastating raids of the nomadic Cumans soon ended the supremacy of Kiev. In the middle of the 12th cent. a number of local centers of power developed: Halych in the west, Novgorod in the north, Vladimir-Suzdal (see Vladimir) in the northwest, and Kiev in the south. In 1169, Kiev was sacked and pillaged by the armies of Andrei Bogolubsky of Suzdal, and the final blow to the Kievan state came with the Mongol invasion (1237–40). The economy of the Kievan state was based on agriculture and on extensive trade with Byzantium, Asia, and Scandinavia. Culture, as well as religion, was drawn from Byzantium; Church Slavonic was the literary and liturgical language of the state. According to some scholars the history of the Kievan state is the common heritage of modern Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians, although their existence as separate peoples has been traced as far back as the 12th cent. Ukrainian scholars consider Kievan Rus to be central to the history of the Ukraine.

[Lion in Winter]

Thanx!

[sergey1973]

Here is another link to informative and objective article on Kievan Rus in Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus'

The Fragment explaining how inhabitants of Kievan Rus evolved into Russians, Ukrainians and Belarussians:

Kievan Rus was not able to maintain its position as a powerful and prosperous state, in part because of the amalgamation of disparate lands under the control of a ruling clan. As the members of that clan became more numerous, they identified themselves with regional interests rather than with the larger patrimony. Thus, the princes fought among themselves, frequently forming alliances with outside groups such as the Polovtsians, Poles, and Hungarians. During the years from 1054 to 1224 no less than 64 principalities had a more or less ephemeral existence, 293 princes put forward succession claims, and their disputes led to 83 civil wars.

The Crusades brought a shift in European trade routes that accelerated the decline of Kievan Rus. In 1204 the forces of the Fourth Crusade sacked Constantinople, making the Dnieper trade route marginal. As it declined, Kievan Rus splintered into many principalities and several large regional centers: Novgorod, Vladimir-Suzdal, Halych, Polotsk, Smolensk, Chernigov, and Pereyaslavl. The inhabitants of those regional centers then evolved into three nationalities: Ukrainians in the southeast and southwest, Belarusians in the northwest, and Russians in the north and northeast.

[Lion in Winter]

Nationalists of all sorts are not known for presenting facts clearly and just use plenty of emotionalism. Sad, really.

Learned so much from this thread and your posts to those folks who are not very knowledgeable about the region.

Have a question though. You wrote about the kraine in Croatia. Where is that exactly?

[jb6]

Kraina is a, well, was a region on the Bosnian western bordor in Croatia. A large group of Serbs made it out of Turkish occupied Serbia and were granted land there by the Austrians in exchange for warring on the Turks. Operation Storm, funded by the Klintonats, allowed the Tudjamen Nazis to wipe the area clean.

[Lion in Winter]

So, then according to your documentation.... the inhabitants of the region in question, were in fact.... converted from paganism to the GREEK ORTHODOX CHURCH OF CONSTANINOPLE... NOT ROME,ITALY.

Then, originally those folks were Orthodox Christians. Well, I guess over the years, SOME of those people found themselves tied to Rome, Italy and the Pope. HOW, I wonder???

Now, this is very interesting.

The home church would be Greek and not Italian for the Kievan Rus. Amazing.

[sergey1973]

Principality of Galich and Volyn that emerged after the breakup of Kievan Rus in what is now Western Ukraine and Eastern Poland, made an alliance with Rome I believe around 1200. After Polish-Lithuanian Kingdom extended its domain into the territory of the Old Kievan Rus in 14th century there was a Union of Brest-Litovsk between local Orthodox Churches and Rome. The newly formed church became known as Greek-Catholic or Uniate church that acknowledges Rome patrimony while retaining Byzantine rites.

[Lion in Winter]

THANX!

Now, it is clear to me. The whole uniate thing has been rather confusing but now I understand. The original Church of choice was in Greece. OK.

[jb6]

Notice how the liars have fled? They posted quick and as usual, as soon as the truth gets cast forward, it's light drives them away.

[wildandcrazyrussian]

I have in my library a newspaper from Winnipeg, Canada, dated 1918, published by a Ukrainian organization based there. The article asks whether "we" (Ukrainian readers) should call themselves "Ukrainian", "Vikrainian", or "Rusyn". Even then it hadn't been decided. So the entire concept of "Ukrainian" has been in flux all along, since it first began as a POLITICAL alternative to Russian identity in the early 1800's in the Austro-Hungarian Empire (divide and conqure strategy).

Why else would most everybody I've ever met from the Ukraine (eastern, southern, or western) be quite clear that they are "Russian" even if living in the Ukrainian landmass.

By the way, the people in westernmost Ukraine (the Carpathian region) were quite clear in the early 1800's that they identified with the Russian nation "from the Poprad River [Slovakia] to the Pacific", and Alexander Duchnovich's de facto national anthem "Ja Rusin Byl" [I was Rusin, am, and will be] refers to having "Russian" parents and "Russian" environment.

[sergey1973]

Ukrainian identity was formed long before Austro-Hungarian empire, so its absolutely wrong to say that Austro-Hungarian leadership invented it. Ukrainian language started forming somewhere in 13th or 14th century. Zaporozje Cossacks by the time of 1648 Khmelnitski uprising against Polish overlords saw themselves as a sort of a separate Ukrainian nation (or quasi-nation). Khmelnitski decided to Unite with Moscow Ruler in 1654 wanting full autonomy for Ukraine under Moscow Protectorate. The subsequent Ukrainian Cossack leaders frequently rebelled against Moscow Authority when Moscow started to tighted its control over Ukraine. Formation of Ukrainian and Russian identity is centuries old complex process and its ridiculous to try to pin it all on Austro-Hungarian leadership. The bottom line--these identities are formed and Nation states are created around them.

[Romanov]

Chego? Kiev is the ancient capital of Ukraine, not Russia? What freakin' history books are you smoking?

[jb6]

And yet those same Cossaks came in in 1611 and tried to rule Russia themselves, though they failed.

[Leo Carpathian]

So much crap, not worth commenting. Like:
"By the way, the people in westernmost Ukraine (the Carpathian region) were quite clear in the early 1800's that they identified with the Russian nation "from the Poprad River [Slovakia] to the Pacific", and Alexander Duchnovich's de facto national anthem "Ja Rusin Byl" [I was Rusin, am, and will be] refers to having "Russian" parents and "Russian" environment.

There is also "Russian" church in NYC and they are proud to be russians (really Ruthenians), the only "problem" is - they speak Ukrainian.

Not RUSSIAN but RUSIN (or RUSNAK). Have you compared language those "Russians" speak? It is Ukrainian with mixture of some Slovak and Polish words. Far remote from rough Russian language. Language on the territory tells the story who is who. If people speak Ukrainian and Ukrainian dialects that are closer to literary Ukrainian than Russian, then they are hardly Russian. Russian Imperial worshipers, as soon as they see RUS... somewhere, it was mother Russia and invented by Russians and all their bases are belong to them. Like the world's nicest political system. Glory to bat'ko Lenin! I lived there, I know, you are full of it. Interesting that garbage and personal attacks by JB6 are tolerated by the admin.

I have a life besides arguing with likes of JB6. As some deep thinker said: If you argue with idiot, it is hard to tell who is... (something like that :-)