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Why Women Must Change Too if we are to Rescue Marriage
The Financial Times ^ | July 5, 2005 | Richard Tomkins

Posted on 07/05/2005 5:31:57 AM PDT by Bon mots

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To: Nowhere Man

Good points you make Nowhere Man and pretty much in line with my own thoughts on the matter :-)


861 posted on 07/07/2005 6:20:13 AM PDT by Kelly_2000 (Because they stand on a wall and say nothing is going to hurt you tonight. Not on my watch)
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To: Enterprise
"So in essence, you walk like a duck, talk like a duck, and look like a duck. Well, ok. I can live with that.",p> I am bemused.....what does this mean?
862 posted on 07/07/2005 6:21:03 AM PDT by Kelly_2000 (Because they stand on a wall and say nothing is going to hurt you tonight. Not on my watch)
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To: papertyger
"Nonsense. You simply refuse to accept your definition of feminism is no longer applicable"

and that is where your argument falls apart, it is not my definition at all. It is the field of sociology and the dictionary definition. So if you have a problem I suggest you write a white paper with your hypothesis and we can see if that survives peer review (which i doubt). In the meantime we use the definitions that exists. Not the ones we WISH to exist.

863 posted on 07/07/2005 6:23:21 AM PDT by Kelly_2000 (Because they stand on a wall and say nothing is going to hurt you tonight. Not on my watch)
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To: MaxMax
"Sorry it took me so long to explain my position. ;-) /Salute"

No problem mon ami :-)

864 posted on 07/07/2005 6:24:13 AM PDT by Kelly_2000 (Because they stand on a wall and say nothing is going to hurt you tonight. Not on my watch)
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To: xVIer
"You will have to clarify...I don't know what franchise you are talking about...and as far as the definition of feminism...I think you UNDERSTOOD what Kelly MEANT but chose to make an arguement out of it rather than accept what she meant and go from there. "

That is my take on the situation also. I think because he misinterpreted my stance on this subject, he decided to attack me as a let wing lesbian supporter. Which plainly as a staunch conservative I am not

865 posted on 07/07/2005 6:27:27 AM PDT by Kelly_2000 (Because they stand on a wall and say nothing is going to hurt you tonight. Not on my watch)
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To: HitmanNY
The only requirement I think for a divorce should be that once person wants out (not necessarily both)

I've no idea what the purpose of marriage would be in your world. Your definition renders it completely moot, and no different than dating. If there is no such thing as an "innocent" person, then nobody should ever get married, because as imperfect people, absolutely nobody deserves a faithful spouse.

I'm sorry you find my view on adultery "infantile", but I belive that grown adults know right from wrong, and should act accordingly. If that is infantile, then I wear the label proudly.

Adultery is wrong, and while some people may bend over backwards to do what they can to rationalize it (and call themselves "mature" while doing so), other people consider knowing right from wrong, and acting accordingly a sign of true maturity. I fall into the latter camp.

I think everyone reading this thread can point to 100 flaws in their spouse, and make a reasonable case why their adultery could be excused ... and while the fact is that most people act upon it, I respect the people who take their spouse for better or worse. Nobody said it was easy. In fact, it's hard.

You are either capable of handling it, or not.

I think we have too many people getting married who so not have the maturity level to handle the institution of marriage. This is what the divorce and child support industry thrive upon.

Anyway, good luck.

866 posted on 07/07/2005 7:37:28 AM PDT by Stu Cohen (Press '1' for English)
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To: k2blader
It's just kind of ironic to hear guys complaining about paying for a date on one hand, then complaining about the lack of respect women seem to have for them on the other.

When did "paying for stuff" = "respect" outside of the prostitute/john transaction?

867 posted on 07/07/2005 7:57:07 AM PDT by Stu Cohen (Press '1' for English)
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To: Bon mots

The flames were justified. I have no problem with your opinion that your wife should not work outside of the home. I am a stay-at-home Mom myself. And what you and your wife choose to do is none of my business anyway.

My problem with your remark was that it was insulting to men like my husband and your refusal to acknowledge it further justifies my condemnation of it. You could have been a gentleman and apologized for it, but you didn't. And that speaks volumes.


868 posted on 07/07/2005 8:54:56 AM PDT by SilentServiceCPOWife
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To: T. Jefferson
I think you have a very distorted view of marriage, dating, and women in general. In your world, all you see are money grubbing women looking to snag "successful" guys. In my world, I see pretty women on the arms on all kinds of guys. The mechanic I use is married to a knockout, the bike mechanic I use has a knockout girlfriend. The people who cut my grass are a husband and wife team who're both young and good looking. My best friend in Dallas is a bicycle mechanic/salesman who's significant other is a hotter than he is type who must out earn him 6:1.

I don't see what you see at all. As a matter of fact, almost without exception, all of the working class people I know are hooked up with somebody. The way you tell it, only the "successful" have a chance in the dating market, because women are all secretly planning to leave and take half.

869 posted on 07/07/2005 9:18:12 AM PDT by Melas (Lives in state of disbelief)
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To: Bon mots

$60K a year is well above the average. It might pale before what you make, but it's far from chump change. To a Democrat elitist who pays lip service to the working man, it's chump change. Don't join that crowd.


870 posted on 07/07/2005 9:21:39 AM PDT by Melas (Lives in state of disbelief)
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To: Bon mots

There isn't much in here that would help the normal conflicted marriage. They wouldn't be able to hear it.

For the fair to decent marriage, they might learn something about fairly balancing the load.


871 posted on 07/07/2005 9:30:07 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: Melas
$60K a year is well above the average. It might pale before what you make, but it's far from chump change.

I'm not elitist, I am not going to sell the mother of my children to an employee for that money. It's not worth it. What for? To buy more 'things'. No thanks. Mom is busy with the home, kids, remodeling...

Maybe when the kids are grown.

872 posted on 07/07/2005 9:42:17 AM PDT by Bon mots
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To: SilentServiceCPOWife
My problem with your remark was that it was insulting to men like my husband and your refusal to acknowledge it further justifies my condemnation of it. You could have been a gentleman and apologized for it, but you didn't. And that speaks volumes.

Nothing worse than a perpetually insulted woman fishing for unwarranted apologies.

873 posted on 07/07/2005 9:43:47 AM PDT by Bon mots
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To: Bon mots

LOL Are you using a script or is this completely ad libbed?




874 posted on 07/07/2005 10:13:53 AM PDT by SilentServiceCPOWife
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To: Bon mots

Women take responsibility????? Yeah and monkeys will be flying out of my butt!


875 posted on 07/07/2005 10:36:29 AM PDT by samm1148
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To: SilentServiceCPOWife

"Bitter Boys Handbook"

Chapter 1- All Females Are Evil, Lie and Only Want Money
Chapter 2- See Chapter One


876 posted on 07/07/2005 10:43:33 AM PDT by najida (The hardest person to forgive is yourself.)
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To: Melas
I think you have a very distorted view of marriage, dating, and women in general. In your world, all you see are money grubbing women looking to snag "successful" guys.

You live in the sticks, I live in the big city. It's been in my face 24/7 in the dating world for two decades. One has to be naive or blind not to see it. There are diamonds in the rough, but they are rare. Beyond dating, I've seen more than a dozen marriages fail due to women changing. They become condescending, unsupportive, intolerable beeatches who gain 30-50% bodyweight within a few years. The men go years without sex. When you see family members and best friends lives destroyed by predatory females, you develop an educated opinion firsthand, something you obviously have never seen. No big deal, you've witnessed plenty of things that I haven't. It's a big planet.

In my world, I see pretty women on the arms on all kinds of guys. The mechanic I use is married to a knockout, the bike mechanic I use has a knockout girlfriend.

Like most of my best friends, I've experienced that my entire life, whether I was making 6 figures or unemployed. I had a girlfriend of 2 years who turned down Playboy. Any man with player skills, a sense of humor and some looks is surrounded by women, regardless of money. These are all things a man can perfect, if he puts an effort into it.

I don't see what you see at all.

Very true, so don't pre-judge what you have not witnessed. Like they say, before you pre-judge a man, walk a few miles in his shoes. That way, if he gets pissed off, you miles away and you've got his shoes.

The way you tell it, only the "successful" have a chance in the dating market.

Nonsense. Looks, youth and charm will get you in most any woman's door. As for longevity, no money no honey. They sell their goods to the highest bidder in the long run. Where I live the good looking women ALL date 3-5 guys at a time. I'm platonic friends with many great looking US women, it's no big deal for them to discuss it. They brag bout the ever changing fleet of men, it's a source of humor. The older affluent men take them to dinner and events, but it's Biff the janitor on the side who gets the goods. He gets replaced on a weekly basis.

If you've read my previous posts, I caught on to the games early, and have only dated Latinas for 14 years now. Lots of them. They're all women, none of this dishonest, selfish feminist attitude. If they start to americanize, I move on.

877 posted on 07/07/2005 10:56:04 AM PDT by T. Jefferson
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To: najida

LOL

All new members of the He-Man Woman Haters Club receive that book when they sign up.

(By the way, my husband says that he needs to see evidence that you can in fact do a back bend. ;->)


878 posted on 07/07/2005 10:56:51 AM PDT by SilentServiceCPOWife
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To: Bon mots

oh i'm gonna need this one. bump for later...


879 posted on 07/07/2005 10:56:55 AM PDT by thefactor
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To: SilentServiceCPOWife

he he he,
If I tried one right now I'd fall on my head.


880 posted on 07/07/2005 10:59:08 AM PDT by najida (The hardest person to forgive is yourself.)
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