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To: kabar

"...The Germans have a large economy, but not necessarily a strong one with double digit unemployment and low growth. Germany's problem is an aging, declining population that must cope with a social welfare system it can't afford. Also, the Germans have to deal with the massive expenditures necessary to bring the former East Germany up to the level of West Germany, which still hasn't been done..."

You are right - those topics are the real German problem. We have practically no difficulties with the actual closing of the US-Bases. There are some local economical effects around the affected facilities, but in fact the American drawback is no big thing in German politics and media. Since the threat of the Sowjet-Union doesn't exist anymore, there is absolutely no need for such a big presence of US-millitary in central Europe anymore. This has nothing to do with the troubled relationship between the current German gouvernment and the US-administration, it has to do with the loss of strategical importance in millitary aspects of the former borderline between east and west. In fact it would be a waste of the money of american taxpayers to keep up the US-presence in the current amount. This in well understood among the German people.

"...The US spends more on defense than the rest of NATO combined. I agree that it is time to get the rest of the world off of security welfare provided by the US..."

I doubt that somebody important in Europe is willing to spend a comparable share to the proportion between millitary-buget and GNP in the US on defense. It doesn't matter if you take "old" Europe or the "new" one, the people who elect their leaders just do not see the necessity. The will to lead the world to more democracy and freedom with millitary means just doesn't exist. On one hand Europe is still thinking, that peace can be bought, on the other hand the people are fed up with war and violence. A quite different view compared to America. Personally I think that the truth lies in the middle.


31 posted on 07/02/2005 4:17:46 AM PDT by Atlantic Bridge (O tempora! O mores!)
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To: Atlantic Bridge
I doubt that somebody important in Europe is willing to spend a comparable share to the proportion between millitary-buget and GNP in the US on defense. It doesn't matter if you take "old" Europe or the "new" one, the people who elect their leaders just do not see the necessity.

I agree that the European populace is unwilling to spend anywhere near on defense as what the US spends as a percentage of GDP. They don't see the necessity because the world's lone superpower is footing the bill. We have been providing the security umbrella for Europe for 60 years. Unfortunately, Europe no longer has a global perspective and sees defense and security as regional matters.

Communist China is a looming threat, along with global terrorism fueled by Islamic fundamentalism. Europe is selling arms and technology to China, a potential enemy. France was in bed with Iraq bought off by the illegal proceeds from the Oil for Food program. Unless Europe is willing to assist the US materially in promoting freedom and democracy globally and defeating global terrorism, it will become less and less relevant to the US.

The will to lead the world to more democracy and freedom with millitary means just doesn't exist. On one hand Europe is still thinking, that peace can be bought, on the other hand the people are fed up with war and violence. A quite different view compared to America. Personally I think that the truth lies in the middle.

It is not a matter of leading the world to more democracy and freedom though military means. Unfortunately, unless we have military power and the ability to project it globally to support our policies, you can't lead effectively. Does anyone think that China would have already invaded Taiwan by now if the US didn't have the military power to prevent it? Europe couldn't even stop ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and Kosovo without the US shouldering the major part of the fighting.

Europe has been living in a fantasy world since the end of WWII. The US security umbrella has created the illusion that world and regional bodies along with treaties can govern world affairs. They fail to grasp the fact that these agreements and international bodies would be toothless without US support.

In terms of Europeans believing that peace can be bought, it is instructive to recognize that the US is the biggest contributor economically, in absolute terms, to world bodies and foreign aid. The US is footing most of the bill economically as well as militarily.

Fed up with war and violence? Since WWII, it has been the US sacrificing its blood and treasure the most in defense of freedom around the world. The Europeans have a hard time meeting its miniscule military requirements in Kosovo, Iraq, and Afghanistan. If anyone should be fed up with war and violence, it is the Americans. Unfortunately, there is no one else willing to shoulder part of the load. That is the real truth.

32 posted on 07/02/2005 8:51:40 AM PDT by kabar
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