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To: BlackElk
The message of the last three decades in American politics is that right-to-life is the central issue of American politics.

I don't agree. It is THE central issue for many here. It is THE central issue for many democrats. But the overwhelming majority would probably be happy to see abortions legal until 12 weeks, and illegal after that. A push for a complete ban would pull support away from us, and a push for eliminating birth control pills will have people running, screaming in the opposite direction.

1,061 posted on 07/01/2005 12:15:27 PM PDT by Dianna
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To: Dianna; BlackElk

It's not a question of "how old."

Roe should be overturned because it is NOT a Federal issue--it's a States' issue.


1,143 posted on 07/01/2005 1:48:55 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: Dianna; ninenot; sittnick; onyx; PhiKapMom; rwfromkansas; Cap'n Crunch; Petronski; Unam Sanctam; ...
Dianna: The following is strongly worded but offered with due respect to someone who probably disagrees with its substance: Others probably interested from a pro-life point of view are pinged to draw their attention to the specific argument you are making.

Abortion polling is a LOT more complex than you apparently imagine. Whatever the liars and killers at Planned Barrenhood, NARAL and similar gangs may suggest or claim, your claim of 2/3 favoring 1st trimester abortion is simply not the case. Add in the comoplications: "on demand?" "for economic reasons?" "for social reasons?" et al. and see what happens to the #s.

Those of us who have abortion as a central or THE central issue are more than you imagine and we vote to finish off disagreeing politicos. We decide primaries and often decide elections.

Politics is NOT simply about winning elections. Spending money on elections or writing letters to the editor for or against candidates, or calling radio talk shows, or walking your precinct or maintaining phone trees or raising or giving money are all quite morally permissible political activities and efforts. Even if one assumes that some putative majority of the public has been sooooo deMORALized as to favor abortion of the unborn up to 13 weeks of gestation and pretend that such homicides of the innocent are "moral", making an electoral deal with the would-be killers of innocent babies is NOT moral. The lives lost are not yours or mine to give away. Even if they were, the vicarious homicide of the innocent of any age is beyond our moral authority to grant. I also see nothing whatever in the 14th amendment due process or equal protection clause language suggesting a right to kill so long as the innocent victim is of very youthful age from conception.

BUT! You may say that practicality suggests that we must compromise and give up 90+% of the abortion victims (first trimester victims) in exchange for political "victory" and also "we" will save 10%! Well, the statute may be proposed as simply one that would criminalize and render a felony homicide any abortion after 13 weeks. That way no one agrees to any abortion under such a statute. Next year, using similar language, we can modify the then-existing ban abortions to apply to all of them after 4 weeks of gestation. Repeat tactic as necessary until this holocaust ceases to be legal.

All of this presupposes the overturning of Roe vs. Wade so that we may have our republic and our states and its and their democratic processes back from SCOTUS run amok. Today, we need to replace Sandy Baby (she should pardon the expression) and one more pro-homicide justice. We shall start with the current vacancy. Maybe we will get lucky with presently unanticipated departures of Ginsberg and/or Stevens given their respective advanced ages and precarious health.

There is right and there is wrong. Each and every abortion is the homicide of an innocent baby and therefore wrong as to the result for the baby who is, after all, innocent. SOME tiny handful of abortions MAY be NECESSARY to the LIFE of the mother although this is seldom, if ever, proven: kind of the sasquatch of abortionist politics. If someone believes that the very concept of property amounts to "theft", I need not and will not take such an argument seriously since it has no basis in fact, whatever Marxists may imagine. Likewise the argument that the unborn are not human beings with a general and very real right to live.

There is NOT ONE WORD in the United States Constitution that purports to give to ANYONE the right to kill an innocent unborn child at ANY stage of development after the moment of conception and even the SCOTUS members KNOW IT. Roe vs. Wade and each other decision like it threatens the rule of law generally and the US Constitution specifically. If you want to live under the rule of law and not of men, then Roe (all of it, each and every word) must GO.

The despicable SCOTUS has even suspended 1st Amendment Free Speech rights of pro-lifers on the publicly owned sidewalks in the vicinity of the abortionists' killing mills.

The SCOTUS also used to opine that the RICO (racketeering) statutes were applicable to pro-lifers for what would be constitutionally protected efforts in any other cause (disagreeing with elitist corrupted judges in the 1st degree and IN PUBLIC!!!!). The SCOTUS probably stands ready to apply its elitist and utterly constitionally clueless standards to defend the suddenly discovered "constitutional right" of Lance to do unspeakable things with Bruce's rump and call it "marriage."

BTW, we have a written constitution for the very good reason that Great Britain did not and that one's rights against the government itself required written guarantees given the untrustworthy nature of gummint functionaries with an army and a budget. When the constitution was written, elites could read and obey. Dear long dead days.

No one is seriously advocating banning birth control pills at this stage. If they are, as most are, abortifacient pills rather than contraceptive pills, then they are abortion means and bannable. If the basic principle and fall back position is that babies live and not, as presently, that 1 million + babies are to be sliced, diced and hamburgerized each year, we shall have made substantial but incomplete progress. What else is new? Iraq will not be the Garden of Eden when we are through with it no matter how hard and well we try.

Maybe we should try being brutally honest with the general public for a change. Maybe we should call a homicide a homicide and not try to rationalize it away as a "choice" or whatever fresh euphemism is produced for the Demonrats by the focus groups run by Stanley Greenberg.

Some people here and elsewhere have loved ones who have had abortions. Do not lie to them and help them make believe that homicide of the innocent is a "freedom" or a social "choice" available morally to all. Some people here and elsewhere have themselves committed abortions as "doctor" or "patient." Likewise. If they sincerely repent, God forgives. Who are we to contradict God by failing to forgive the genuinely penitent (so long as that repentance is public enough to gain our attention)?

Who is this "us" who will be losing support by insisting on truth and the protection of innocent human life????? People who want their taxes cut but don't mind if 1+ million innocent babies must die eac year so that they may have their taxes cut???? Their wars won???? Their businesses unregulated or more lightly taxed???? Even their gun rights extended????

None of these goals are achieved by selling out innocent babies. Show me a politician who is not trustworthy in defending innocent human life in the womb or elsewhere and I will show you a political prostitute (actually my apologies to literal prostitutes many of whom probably have a far superior morality to that of pro-aborts) who deserves no support because he/she can be trusted on NOTHING.

The very lives of innocent unborn children are not trading chips for other issues.

1,257 posted on 07/02/2005 1:01:03 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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