You ain't seen nothing yet (America's Christian Right)

The Economist ^ | 23 june 2005 | The Economist

[voletti]

THIS week, for the fourth year in a row, President George Bush broke from affairs of state to address the Southern Baptist Convention. He promised the strict evangelical group, which has 16m members, that he would work hard to ban gay marriage and abortion, and that their “family values” were his values, too.

In the 1960s, many liberal Americans thought they had banned religion from the public square for good. Yet nowadays the president, the secretary of state and the House speaker accept the evangelical label. A packed prayer breakfast takes place every Thursday in Congress. And liberals regularly contend that one of America's two great parties is bent on creating a theocracy—backed by a solid core of somewhere between a quarter and a third of the population.

Why is the religious right as powerful as it is? The question puzzles even Americans. Their country, as a whole, is not getting more religious. The gap between it and European countries has increased, but largely because of Europe's growing godlessness. Most Americans say that religion is very important (60%) or fairly important (26%) in their lives, but Karlyn Bowman, a polling analyst at the American Enterprise Institute, points out that the figures were 75% and 20% in 1952.

What has changed is, first, the make-up of Protestant America and, second, the realignment of religious America's politics. The generally liberal mainline churches have declined, while harder outfits like the Southern Baptists have spurted forward. White evangelicals, who see the Bible as the literal truth (or darned close to it), now make up 26% of the population.

It is not just a matter of numbers but of confidence. Born-again Christians are no longer rural hicks; they are richer and better educated than the average American.

[SaveTheChief]

THIS week, for the fourth year in a row, President George Bush broke from affairs of state to address the Southern Baptist Convention.

The spin is dizzying. How many times did President Bush's predecessor break from "affairs of state" to have personal affairs in the oval office?

[AzaleaCity5691]

Doesn't matter, if I swear on a Bible which I do not believe to be the true Bible, the true inspired Word of God, then I commit blasphemy if I swear upon it

[CajunConservative]

Legalism doesn't do as good as the Holy Spirit at convicting people of sin. I don't need to be beat over the head with a huge KJV Bible to hear the truth. I just need the word and a broken and contrite heart to repent. I'll take my SBC freedom and love over the judgemental pharisaical IBF any day of the week.

When I quit smoking it wasn't after some long and drawn out thunderous and condemning sermon. It was when I realized that what I was doing was not in obedience to God. I was instantaneously freed from the desire to smoke. I literally that moment quit smoking and have never ever thought about smoking again. The same goes for other areas of temptation.

When did Jesus harp and condemn people who were caught up in sin?

[Modernman]

placemarker

[Celtjew Libertarian]

It seems that the religious right cannot fail to win. Either the Democrats continue to get more secular, in which case middle America will continue to vote Republican, or they will embrace religion a little more fully, and then the religious right will get a little more of what it wants.

What horrible strategy. The Dems are not going to out-God the GOP and it's just going to further repel voters who aren't comfortable with the religious right, but vote Republican for other reasons, like myself.

If Dems shut up about religion in general, got serious about defending America from military and terrorist threats, and outflanked the GOP on spending (which they could, what with President Bush's budgets), they might pick up a slice of secular conservatives/libertarians....Not that will any time soon, what with 60s New Leftists in the leadership.... But maybe in 20-30 years....

[k2blader]

He promised the strict evangelical group, which has 16m members, that he would work hard to ban gay marriage and abortion, and that their “family values” were his values, too.

Put your money where your mouth is, Mr. President.

[CajunConservative]

You have made some good posts in this thread.

[TheGhostOfTomPaine]

Okay, here is a great example of why the RATS keep on surviving. We Christians are more interested in fighting each other than in defeating a common enemy.

Are you under the impression that everybody who's not a Christian is a Democrat?

[k2blader]

So illuminate us on how exactly the Prez is "far too liberal for most Bible-believing independent Baptist churches and peoples". I'll assume you mean doctrinally?

[newbeliever]

Actually, and to be specific, you should not swear on anything, including God. Simply let your yes be yes and your no be no, anything else come from the evil one.

Unfortunately, swearing to God on the Bible is a requirement of man and to comply with the norms of society we should comply as long as it does not cause someone to stumble.

The fact that as a believer you put your hand on the
Bible is meaningless. It is a book.

"Blasphemy," I don't agree with that at all.

[Free Baptist]

SURE(!) you have the right to swear on the "Bible" of your choice, and I would stand with you in defending that right. You have the right to read and propagate your faith from any translation, version, edition, or paraphrase you want to, and I would stand with you in defending that right.

I believe that you have been incorrectly advised concerning the origins and the authority of the apocryphal books, but you have a right to them. The original publication of the King James Bible had the apocryphal books all bound in the center, between the O.T. and N.T. They are of great historical value with regard to the Maccabean period. I do not believe that they are cononical or authoritative, but you have the right to believe that they are, and to use them. Count on me as a friend to just such rights.

[k2blader]

Okay, so you're wordly and the SB's are "prudes". Sounds pretty leftist to me.

[2banana]

Hmmm, lets see...they work, vote, go to church, join the military and have children...now why wouldn't any politician want their vote...

[AzaleaCity5691]

The reason you swear on the Bible is because it stands in as the Word of God, therefore, if you break your oath, then you have essentially defiled the Word of God.

That only works if you believe that what you have sworn upon is infact the Word of God.

[My2Cents]

Here's a thought: We believers (of every stripe) don't live by a book; we live by the Life of Christ, embedded in our hearts by union with His Spirit who indwells our spirit. The Apostle Paul points out that the "Law" (i.e., much of the written word) is a tutor that leads one to Christ. The book is important, as Paul points out in 2 Tim. 3:16-17, in that "Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, [and] for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God's will in thought, purpose, and action), so that the man of God may be complete and proficient, well fitted and thoroughly equipped for every good work." The written word of scripture is to be respected and adhered to, but the word is a crushing burden if we try to apply its teachings to ourselves without the empowerment, and the guidance of the indwelling Holy Spirit. (A.W. Tozer called adherence to the written scriptures in a Spiritless Christianity as the "dead letter of textualism.")

Wouldn't you agree?

And as to the Protestant vs. the Catholic Bible, they are identical in regard to the New Testament, which is the fulfillment of the Old. Both point to Christ in their essential teachings.

[Free Baptist]

Charles Spurgeon, one of the most highly regarded of Baptist preachers in history smoked cigars for some years of his ministry. It is not defendable, and he later admitted this. Tobacco use is not consistent with a clean testimony, and is a stumbling block to the faith of others, C.S. Lewis having been a smoker notwithstanding.

[Redleg Duke]

No, not at all. But liberal Christians tend to be more liberal than Christian.

[AzaleaCity5691]

I never said I'm worldly.

But you will find that that is a big point of contention between well, to be rather honests, Baptists and Pentecostals as opposed to the rest of the Southern population.

You better believe I am a fervent opponent of gay marriage, and abortion, etc (though I'm also a states rights advocate), but when it comes to the question, is using tobacco a sin, I'm going to have to go with the Negative

I also do not get the argument that taking your kids to a parade where they can get beads and moonpies somehow qualifies as a sin.

[Modernman]

Unfortunately, swearing to God on the Bible is a requirement of man and to comply with the norms of society we should comply as long as it does not cause someone to stumble.

No one is required to swear on a Bible in court. You can simply take an oath affirming that you will tell the truth.