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Parents miss Mass, kids get ax
NY Daily News ^ | 06.27.05 | NANCY DILLON

Posted on 06/27/2005 1:42:52 PM PDT by Coleus

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To: D-fendr

Yes, I believe they were indwelt by the Holy Spirit! The only example I can find in the Scripture where people were baptized by water and later on Paul baptized them with the Holy Spirit, it refers to people who had heard the teachings of John the Baptist. They may have heard something about Jesus, but they were baptized with John's baptism, i.e. a water baptism. As soon as they were properly taught and they believed in Jesus, they were baptized with the Holy Spirit.


641 posted on 06/28/2005 12:28:10 PM PDT by Former Fetus (fetuses are 100% pro-life, they just don't vote yet!)
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To: Rutles4Ever
APPARENTLY, you don't agree with it?

Not exactly. I don't disagree or agree with it necessarily. I don't think it's important. It's a side issue. It won't get me to heaven or keep me from getting there. Christ is my only hope and path.

Your milage may differ.

642 posted on 06/28/2005 12:29:17 PM PDT by Protagoras (Now that the frog is fully cooked, how would you like it served?)
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To: FourtySeven

no, if you are looking for a catholic answer to a question, you would go to a catholic source. However if you were to go to another outside source you would probably find a different answer...


643 posted on 06/28/2005 12:30:27 PM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: Former Fetus
This is a conditional sentence, therefore if you don't do X then Y will not happen!

This violates the rules of logic.

There are many kinds of conditional sentences.

"If X then Y" is one kind of conditional sentence. This is the form Paul used.

"If not X then not Y" is another kind of conditional sentence.

They are not equivalent.

When I say "If you eat 10,000 calories a day, then you will get fat" I do not mean "If you do not eat 10,000 calories a day you will not get fat" - because it is entirely conceivable that someone might eat 9,000 calories a day and still get fat. just because they are not eating 10,000 does not mean they will not get fat.

Which is precisely my point!

Christ decides who is saved and who is not - you don't get to decide that the baptism He saved you with doesn't take until you say so.

Paul, in his letter, was addressing people old enough to read or hear and understand the words he was writing.

he is not excluding infants from the baptismal font.

644 posted on 06/28/2005 12:30:42 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: Former Fetus
they were baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Was his baptism effective or is it possible they may need another one?

645 posted on 06/28/2005 12:31:10 PM PDT by D-fendr
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To: Rutles4Ever

I apologise if I have been out of line. I love the Lord and you as well. Peace be with you.


646 posted on 06/28/2005 12:33:00 PM PDT by Protagoras (Now that the frog is fully cooked, how would you like it served?)
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To: SoothingDave
You somehow disassociate attending Mass from "teaching of the Gospel."

No, I was talking about letting the children come to the savior,,in formal classes. Both are important.

Don't you believe parents have a responsibility to raise up their children with good habits and faith?

I do indeed.

Has your Church ever confirmed anyone who never attends services?

Not that I know of. But that is talking about parents, not children. The children would not be confirmed if they didn't believe. If they don't go, it would be in question.

647 posted on 06/28/2005 12:36:57 PM PDT by Protagoras (Now that the frog is fully cooked, how would you like it served?)
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Real books by REAL CHRISTIANS.

Nothing I said addressed this point, there are a lot of authors writing good CCD texts.

neo-modernist church in contemporary America.

Neomodernist is usually a code word for not Tridentine? There are a lot of Priest and authors that are Catholic, that practice the normative Mass and Rites of the Church. Claiming that the prescription that Rome wrote for the Church leads to perdition is as bad as saying the Mass practiced as spelled out in the current GIRM is invalid.

Special education issues for truly dysfunctional students cannot be addressed by most parish schools given the financial realities.

Not what I would think, but, the Church Schools now cherry pick. I know a long list of kids who were asked to not return for discipline, under the guise of special needs. Kids who were low achievers, that is, not above average, were asked not to return. Some kids were labeled ADD and told to get ritalin or leave. Should a Nun be cherry picking kids to make room for non-Catholic students who can boost test scores?

I attack the basis for Catholic education today, which in many schools isn't about a charitable endeavor, it is about privilege and money. If I wanted to give underprivileged Catholic kids a boost, I should pay someone to go and volunteer at a secular school.

Even at that how about the large number of orthodox Catholics who home school. Nothing bad about home schooling, but it makes you wonder why doesn't diocesan educators provide more to those kids.

does not reflect well on the priestly training served up by the neo-modernist mafia in the USCCB and the homosexual-dominated seminaries.

Well I guess it is where you put your eyes. I don't see that as being a problem as it once was, after the abuse issues, things were changed fundamentally, and attention was paid to seminaries. Many new seminarians come our much better equipped and vetted then they did in the early 80s.
648 posted on 06/28/2005 12:37:14 PM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: Protagoras; All

My apologies to Protagoras and everyone for this bickering. Although I do not agree with his opinion, I've been letting my pride get in the way of being a charitable Christian. I acted like a jerk and wish all Christians only the best for today, tomorrow, and always.

In spite of differences among Christians, we should not fail to strive for unity. Bickering and launching flaming arrows at our perceived opponents is not the will of God.

So I publicly apologize for insulting Protagoras, and am ready to continue the discussion, if so desired, in the manner befitting a self-professed practicing Roman Catholic, and not as some arrogant "know-it-all" like I've been doing.

Apologies to all.


649 posted on 06/28/2005 12:37:48 PM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: Rutles4Ever

You said:
" It doesn't say "the Pastor's or the Parents' responsibility"..."

WRONG.... It does say it, but you obviously have not read the Catechism or you would have known this.

Try this on:

"2252
Parents have the first responsibility for the education of their children in the faith, prayer, and all the virtues. They have the duty to provide as far as possible for the physical and spiritual needs of their children."

Let me know if you find the other references.

Sonar5


650 posted on 06/28/2005 12:39:06 PM PDT by Sonar5 (60+ Million have Spoken Clearly - "We Want Our Country Back")
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Ok, if you want to play literal, go dig up the man and eat the flesh...

I can tell you this, the ritual of transubstantiation is not Christian, it is Egyptian.

As I have said before, God will not go agains't His own Word. HOw are you going to call down God, have Him manifest himself in the wafer/bread, to be eaten? The Sacrifice has been done. No other is needed. So why the ritual? This is idolatry, mysticism, divination with objects and all of this is forbidden in Deuteronomy. Will God lie? Will God change his words? Jesus already died. Why go through it again?

There is nothing in scripture dictating this ritual. The early Christians did not do this ritual.

651 posted on 06/28/2005 12:40:04 PM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: Protagoras
Has your Church ever confirmed anyone who never attends services?

Not that I know of. But that is talking about parents, not children. The children would not be confirmed if they didn't believe. If they don't go, it would be in question.

Thank you. That's all this is. The pastor is saying that he's not going to go through with a mock First Communion ceremony for those who can't be bothered coming to Mass.

SD

652 posted on 06/28/2005 12:42:37 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Rutles4Ever
It's a great day to be a Christian. Peace.

I have to go now, have a great day.

653 posted on 06/28/2005 12:43:07 PM PDT by Protagoras (Now that the frog is fully cooked, how would you like it served?)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Are the mute condemned to hellfire frombeing unable to speak?

Have you thought that there are different ways to confess? Nobody could believe that God would expect someone to do something he is physically unable to do! But a mute person can walk to the front of the church and give witness that he has accepted Christ.

Are infants unable to be saved since they cannot confess or believe?

We believe that infants and children under the age of accountability are not expected to understand and believe. But as soon as they are old enough, our children are encouraged to make profession of faith. And before you ask about it, the age of accountability is not fixed, some children mature sooner than others. It is up to the parents and the pastor to recognize when a child is ready! As to what happens to children who die before reaching that age, they have not had a chance to sin. God would not condemn a child to hell because he hadn't had a chance to accept Him!

654 posted on 06/28/2005 12:43:42 PM PDT by Former Fetus (fetuses are 100% pro-life, they just don't vote yet!)
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To: wideawake; Former Fetus
The Crucifixion was a human sacrifice, but the only sacrifice God would accept for the covering of our sin. As He knew from the beginning.

Jesus was the final sacrifice! Any other sacrifices are a slap to God's face. YOu would be saying.."Thanks God for your son, but I dont feel it's enough for me". Yet, it's God who can only forgive your sin and he has already told you how to get the forgiveness.

God the Father

Jesus = God incarnate, The Son

God The Holy Spirit

I believe in the Trinity.

655 posted on 06/28/2005 12:46:54 PM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Have you gotten your Viking Kittie Patch today? http://www.visualops.com/patch.html)
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To: D-fendr

Who can read another man's soul? To the best of my knowledge, my kids knew what they were doing and meant what they said, so I believe they were saved. Like I said in another post, the baptism comes after and it is only an outward sign of what's happened inside, i.e. death to the sin nature, dead buried and risen with Christ to a new life.


656 posted on 06/28/2005 12:48:34 PM PDT by Former Fetus (fetuses are 100% pro-life, they just don't vote yet!)
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To: Rutles4Ever; Protagoras

Good on both you guys for the needed reminder...


657 posted on 06/28/2005 12:50:16 PM PDT by D-fendr
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To: Dominick
Neomodernist is usually a code word for not Tridentine?

You are jumping to conclusions. I am neither a schismatic nor a card-carrying traditionalist. Neo-modernist is an accurate description of the dysfunctional approach to the faith common among the USCCB and taught in most homosexual-dominated seminaries. It's absurd to try to run this Godspell farce like a fascist police state. I have never heard of taking Mass attendance in my life. That sounds more like the police state cult of Henry VIII when Catholics were fined, jailed, or decapitated for failing to attend the bogus Anglican services. This is the WRONG way to offer pastoral leadership in a church founded by Christ. It sounds like some kook slipped through one of the pirate seminaries again.

658 posted on 06/28/2005 12:51:38 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Hermann the Cherusker; SoothingDave

It is very sad. It is also disheartening to witness first hand the slow extinguishing of the enthusiasm and faith and charity. I pray for all my students and hope.


659 posted on 06/28/2005 12:52:39 PM PDT by fortunecookie
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
How do you know that the Thief was not baptized? Many people were baptized by Christ's disciples. See St. John 3.23-4.2.

I don't know what happened before, but a criminal condemned to death was not likely to having followed Jesus earlier. What we do know is that following his confession of belief in Christ, he had no chance of being baptized. And think of what faith! He saw Jesus scourged, beating to a pulp, nailed on a cross... and he still believed in Him!

660 posted on 06/28/2005 12:53:28 PM PDT by Former Fetus (fetuses are 100% pro-life, they just don't vote yet!)
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