Parents miss Mass, kids get ax

NY Daily News ^ | 06.27.05 | NANCY DILLON

[wideawake]

"If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved" Romans 10:9

Your argument is a fallacy.

Paul does not thereby exclude infant baptism.

He says if you do X, then Y will happen.

He is not saying Y will happen only if you do X.

And, as has been pointed out on this thread, Christ specifically says that infants should not be prevented from being brought to Him.

Paul does not exclude infants and Jesus specifically includes them.

Your conclusion that your infant baptism was invalid is a false assumption contrary to Scripture.

[Rutles4Ever]

Of course that is incorrect. Christians are called to keep the sabbath holy and be in fellowship with other Christians.

So if you don't attend Sunday services, it's a mortal sin in your church? If not, you are not being held to the same obligation. You are not subject to the same punishment I would be for missing mass without excuse.

[SoothingDave]

Ok, so you criticize most priests. I only criticize the approach of this one. Oh well.

Perhaps you are ignorant of the situation in many areas. This is news because it is novel. It is a priest not content to let sleeping dogs lie.

And it is commendable.

Standing for real Christianity is important. All the rest is extra. It's important if it is helpful to the first point.

That's what i'm doing.

In my church, children are not confirmed without parental involvement. (Or that of a sponsor if no parent is willing or available) But none are turned away from instruction and learning the gospel.

Do you confirm children who never attend your Sunday services?

SD

[Protagoras]

Then keep your opinions on our sacraments to yourself.

Since I never expressed any opinions on the sacraments, and since it's the forth or fifith time you have made these things up, we must assume it's purposeful false witness. Hit your knees, if you are a Christian.

If you're going to lead people astray as to the meaning and application of the Roman Catholic faith, I'll keep you busy with this all day if you want.

I like busy. I never led anyone astray, but you have done quite a good job by lying so much.

[SoothingDave]

All it says is he didn't get their envelopes or they didn't go to Mass at THAT church.

Perhaps you are just that naive. Attendence at the average American Catholic Church is around 25% of "registered" members.

There may be exceptions, those attending a different parish or those paranoid about envelopes. But they are the exception.

The children and parents being talked about here are not being mistaken. They are simply not going to Mass period.

Ask the CCD teachers here.

SD

[Rutles4Ever]

you have done quite a good job by lying so much.

Where have I lied? I've drawn conclusion on your thought process based on your posts. Are those lies or misconceptions, because you haven't proven otherwise.

Since I never expressed any opinions on the sacraments, and since it's the forth or fifith time you have made these things up,

Can you point out what I've "made up"?

[Protagoras]

One can debate whether using the envelope-method is appropriate,

Precisely what I have done,,,and nothing else.

but according to the pastor, there's no obligation to actually donate any money

And no one said they there was, you made that up. Hit your knees.

just submit the envelope as proof there was attendance at mass

Not Mass, His Mass.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

The cure is not just the Mass and Rosary

Never said they were alone.

That's Christian Classics, by the way. Real books by REAL CHRISTIANS. There is no one "cure" for the religious problems of modern Americans and the neo-modernist church in contemporary America. Every parish will ALWAYS have PROBLEMS - serious sinners, alcoholics, domestic abuse, the unemployed, the mentally ill, people who cannot afford to pay bills, etc.

It's absurd in the extreme to have any priest running around keeping a tab on each parishioner or each family as if he were a waiter at a restaraunt or a bar tender at a bar. The last thing the church needs is obsessive-compulsive anal-retentive kook types handing out demerits to families. Screwball priests and nuns do not improve the situation. They are a disgrace to the church. And are one of the primary causes of people leaving the church or staying away.

Special education issues for truly dysfunctional students cannot be addressed by most parish schools given the financial realities. If Catholic schools are expected to handle ALL psychiatric and criminological cases, they deserve their fair share of tax dollars for education. That won't happen because of the political pressure from anti-Catholic organizations on the Church-State mythology issues.

The TRUE reason for the financial problems facing the church has to do with the refusal of bishops (and priests) to deal with the infiltration of the church by predatory homosexuals. Teaching priests HOW to say Mass correctly, eliminating clergy with squeaky whiny voices and bad music ministries, and putting a stop to wreckovation of churches would go a long way to increasing Mass attendance. Blaming the laity - already stressed by a post-Christian society with an absurdly inflated economy deliberately designed to promote population control - does not reflect well on the priestly training served up by the neo-modernist mafia in the USCCB and the homosexual-dominated seminaries.

There are MUCH better ways to improve parish revenue and parish life without resorting to Gestapo tactics.

[Rutles4Ever]

And no one said they there was, you made that up. Hit your knees.

Okay, I'm slappin' my knees. If you get a washboard and an empty jug, we can start a hillbilly band.

[Protagoras]

So if you don't attend Sunday services, it's a mortal sin in your church?

We don't grade sin. That seems to be a RC thing.

I can't find that "mortal" thing anywhere in the bible. Maybe you can point it out to me.

[Aquinasfan]

isn't it the God Parents that are charged with making sure the children grow up to be good catholics?

8-) No, that remains the parents' primary responsibility, and is the purpose of a sacramental marriage.

[Protagoras]

If you get a washboard and an empty jug, we can start a hillbilly band.

Only if ya only need only one hillbilly.

I'm not, I guess that leaves you.

[Aquinasfan]

I'm not Catholic, but I can see the pastor's point. If the parents won't attend mass, then religious education of the children is a waste of time because they won't be attending either. Even when they become old enough to go on their own they will be less likely to attend more than occasionally. Parents must set an example in their children's spiritual lives.

That's the "pro" argument. The same issue arises regarding Catholic baptisms. The priest has the prerogative of denying baptism to infants if the parents have demonstrated only a cultural interest in baptism.

[Rutles4Ever]

Touche. I left that one wide open.

[Former Fetus]

He says if you do X, then Y will happen

This is a conditional sentence, therefore if you don't do X then Y will not happen! Tell me, the thief on the cross didn't have a chance to being baptized, but he believed and confessed, don't you think he was saved? I do, because Jesus said so (today you'll be with me in Paradise).

Christ specifically says that infants should not be prevented from being brought to Him

We bring our infants to Him, dedicate them to Him, and promise that we will bring them up in a Christian manner. My children have been in church 3 times a week since the time they were born. And eventually both of them walked to the front of the church, made confession of faith and were baptized. They just about grew up in church! My 15 year old, as I type, is off on a missions trip. I would say that nobody prevented them from coming to Christ!

[Rutles4Ever]

I can't find that "mortal" thing anywhere in the bible. Maybe you can point it out to me.

Strange, I can't find that "Bible" thing anywhere in the Bible, either.

[Redleg Duke]

Sounds like this Priest is taking payoffs from the local Protestant Churches...he is sure recruiting hard for them!

[Rutles4Ever]

We don't grade sin. That seems to be a RC thing.

'Tis.

I seem to remember that a sin against the Holy Spirit was unforgiveable. Still think sins don't have grades?

[Protagoras]

Perhaps you are just that naive.

Perhaps you are any number of things.

Attendence at the average American Catholic Church is around 25% of "registered" members.

Sounds like you have a problem there.

There may be exceptions, those attending a different parish or those paranoid about envelopes. But they are the exception.

Yep, and I never said anything about any numbers. I was talking about exceptions. One of the best Catholics (and Christians) I know goes to Mass in downtown Chicago almost everyday. Sometimes misses Mass at his church on Sunday.

The children and parents being talked about here are not being mistaken. They are simply not going to Mass period.

That's a pity. I know lots of Catholics like that. Hard to figure.

Ask the CCD teachers here.

I believe you, no need to ask.

[Protagoras]

Strange, I can't find that "Bible" thing anywhere in the Bible, either.

Look harder. Hint, it's often referred to as scripture.