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To: Mylo

"Except the Treaty of Tripoli, signed by President John Adams, ratified by the Senate and therefore the law of the land. It states that "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".

I'm not familiar with that one. Do you have a link?

"Also numerous documents penned by Jefferson"

God is mentioned at least three times in the Declaration of Independence - our founding document. That Founding Document also states that our rights derive from God, not from the State. And Jefferson, in many ways an odd duck and intellectual egghead - penned the Declaration of Independence. I believe Tom Paine left America to work for the French Revolutionnaires in their aborted efforts to successfully emulate us.

"Accustom a people to believe that priests, or any other class of men can forgive sins, and you will have sins in abundance.[The Theological Works of Thomas Paine, p.207]"

Cahtolicism was hardly represented in early America. And the French Revolution, of wich Mr. Paine was so fond, was not merely a bloody event, it was an iconoclastic atheistic event. I don't have anything against an individual who is personally an atheist, but I don't want atheism shoved down my throat, or, in Paine's case, used as a rationale for murdering clergymen, looting and sacking houses of worship and destroying priceless historic relics.

Jefferson by the way was a rabid Francophile who was forced to resign from Washington's cabinet for treaonous or near treasonous activities involving the murderous French "Republic" and its efforts to recruit America in opposing Britain and re-establishing a French Empire in North America.

There are far more "Founding Fathers" than flawed Tom Paine and odd-duck Jeffferson.



44 posted on 06/27/2005 10:44:43 AM PDT by ZULU (Fear the government which fears your guns. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: ZULU
Misquoting Our Founding Fathers
47 posted on 06/27/2005 11:01:24 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: Mylo
Misquoting Our Founding Fathers
48 posted on 06/27/2005 11:02:29 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: ZULU
Treaty of Tripoli: Ratified treaty, formerly the law of the land, stating that "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

Deist believe in God.

The Declaration of Independence says... "Nature's God" and "Creator"; cannot find a third reference. The term "Nature's God" is about as Deist as one can get, and "Creator" is neutral. Not once does it mention the God of the Bible or Jesus.

Jefferson was elected President subsequent to the Washington administration, so his removal from the cabinet of Washington is a nonsequeter.

Yes, there were more founding fathers than just Paine and Jefferson. Franklin considered himself a "thorough Deist". Washington was described by a pastor friend of his as a "Deist". Madison and Adams can also be quoted upon their opinion of matters of church and state...

What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not. [Pres. James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, addressed to the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia, 1785]

The number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the state. [James Madison, 1819]

Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects? [James Madison]

"Twenty times, in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, 'This would be the best of all possible Worlds, if there were no Religion in it,' !!! But in this exclamation I should have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly [a minister and a schoolteacher, mentioned earlier in the letter]. Without Religion, this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean Hell." -- John Adams letter to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817

Yes, many of the founding fathers were Christian; but not all of them. And they did not found this nation as a Christian nation, but as one with absolute freedom of religion.
62 posted on 06/27/2005 12:21:35 PM PDT by Mylo
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