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A War of Diplomats (Germans learn the meaning of the phrase "Payback is a…")
Der Spiegel ^ | June 20, 2005 | Ralf Beste

Posted on 06/25/2005 11:06:04 AM PDT by quidnunc

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To: daviscupper

Germany has been one of the strongest pro american
countries in the world well up to the invasion in Iraq, and
for good reasons, and i think you know that.

Stereotyping germans into being anti-american the way you
do it is a slap in the face of all those germans that
worked with you for decades to tear down that wall - on
both sides of the wall.

The lack of support for your newly devised policies like
preemptive attacks has very much to do with said
policies and very little with your perceived
anti-americanism - and it is not limited to Germany.
Maybe something is wrong with the policy, has that
thought ever occurred to you?

And that is why we send troops to Afghanistan and not
to Iraq, delivering a clear message to the crows of the
world: We come in peace.


121 posted on 06/30/2005 1:08:48 PM PDT by LaBestiaNegra (Ultimately, the only power to whom man should aspire is that which he exercises over himself(Wiesel))
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To: Vicomte13
"I am not running things in France because there was a Revolution."

If I remember my history correctly, France's Revolution removed their aristocratic class. Am I speaking to an aristocrat?
122 posted on 06/30/2005 5:26:04 PM PDT by asp1
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To: LaBestiaNegra
There is not much you and I can agree on, save for one thing: Anti-Americanism is not limited to the current German government. Some of the most virulent forms come from the very countries the United States has protected for the past 60 years. Germany has always been near the top of that list, though.

Japan use to be quite vociferous at times, at least until the North Koreans started shooting missiles over their Island. I guess that must have "smacked" some sense into them. I think they now realize they live in a very dangerous world and their only true ally is the United States. God knows they could never depend on the German Army and Navy to save them.

Also, all the little pipsqueak Socialist/Communist European Countries that don't spend a dime on National Defense, but expect Americans to save them in a crisis, can also be counted on to condemn the U.S. on a routine basis.

Having said that, I must certainly disagree with your notion that Germany has been or is pro-American. Germany is not are friend and has not been for quite some time. Some of the most vile anti-American rhetoric comes out the mouths of your Chancellor and his Ministers. Your Der Spiegel frequently makes the most filthy and disrespectful comparison about our President and our troops.

Your assertion that Germany worked hand-in-hand with Americans to defeat Communism is a joke. Unless you mean that Americans took on lion's share of the responsibilities and costs of fielding a Military capable of meeting the Soviet challenge, while Germany and European socialists routinely compared the United States and our Military as Capitalist, Imperialistic, Fascist warmongers.

The German policy toward defeating terrorism is a joke. Your policy amounts to token participation in Afghanistan (do you have thousands of tanks, trucks, jets or divisions inside the country? Did you ever?) Please spare me the embarrassing details. Your country looks more pathetic by the day.

During first Iraq War did Germany send in divisions, tanks, aircraft carriers, jets? We sent in 500,000 troops and ran 2,500 sorties a day bombing Iraqi forces night and day during that War. Where were the Germans? Oh, I am sorry, you were on your 5-week vacation while the American Military was fighting, and American civilians were working and taxing themselves to maintain a credible Military machine.

To this day Germany continues to renege on its global responsibilities and fails to provide for its own Defense. It relies heavily on the United States to protect her.

Germany had better get ready for a rude awakening. Our President and Secretary of Defense know that Germany is not our friend, it can not be trusted, and has shirked its international and National Defense responsibilities. That is why we are and will continue to roll-up our Military bases in Germany and place them where we are welcomed.

What is most despicable now is Germany's most recent court actions to release terrorists who conspired, aided and abetted the 9/11 terrorists. The pictures of the German defense attorney hugging a terrorist is truly an insult to all self-respecting civilized people everywhere. I noticed that the vast, overwhelming majority of German citizens thought the verdict was appropriate. The courts blamed the United States' unwillingness to release terrorists held in U.S. custody so they could testify on behalf of this "monster" on trial in Germany, as a reason to release him. As if we would ever release terrorists, responsible for conspiring to slaughter Americans, to Germans who would most surely find a reason to release them so they could kill more Americans.

It is very clear that Germany is not America's friend. What is fortunate is that our current Administration knows this and is acting accordingly. Personally, just as soon as we can get our Military completely out of Germany, I think it will be time to start placing severe economic sanctions on our old enemy. Without too much trouble I think we could get most Americans to look at Mercedes and BMW's the same way we look at French Peugeot and Renaults. Then we could broaden the economic sanctions to include 100's of different products.

We come in Peace, also!
123 posted on 07/01/2005 8:21:04 AM PDT by daviscupper
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To: Vicomte13
I also served for 18 years in the US Navy, considering all time together.

No wonder I liked you, lol!

124 posted on 07/04/2005 1:10:41 PM PDT by exnavychick (There's too much youth; how about a fountain of smart?)
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