E85 (Alternative Fuel)

US Senate Website ^ | May 12, 2005 | Barak Obama

[pillbox_girl]

Thanks for the compliment.

I'm surprised you haven't seen my posts before. Then again, I tend to limit myself to discussions I actually know something about.

I get to spend a lot of time late at night babysitting the machines at work. I tend to waste it here, but also at other (dare I say it) liberal websites, because alternative energy is of interest to conservatives and liberals alike (though for different reasons). In both environments I tend to piss off people because I try to promote truth and reason over ideology or agendas.

One thing I've noticed though. At FreeRepublic and other conservative sites, when presented with a simple explanation of the facts of the matter, most conservatives, when wrong, will readily admit their error. When I get into arguements at liberal sites, they entrench their positions and revert to childish behaviors.

Also, conservatives do actually bother to research their arguements instead of just resorting to unsupported ideologies. I've seen facts and studies here from both sides of the discussion. You never see that at liberal discussion boards.

[pillbox_girl]

So ... we should continue to eschew alternatives because they're not perfect but we should continue to buy Arab crude because it is?

No. That is not what I said. Please go back and read my post before replying like this.

Again, what I said was that ethanol has disadvantages. So do fossil based fuels and all other fuels. When promoting an alternative fuel like ethanol we need to be very clear about the disadvantages as well as the advantages. An advantage of ethanol is that it is arab free. A disadvantage is that it provides lower gas mileage and therefore a higher price per mile even with the lower price per gallon.

If we dishonestly promote only the advantages of any alternative fuel, we are setting ourselves up for a severe consumer backlash once they discover the disadvantages for themselves (and they will). And this will not help us convince people to migrate to alternative fuels (once bitten ...).

When Kieth in Iowa says something like:

"E85 costs 50¢ less at the pump."

he is disingenuously (whether intentionally or not, but I like to give him the benefit of the doubt) ingoring the whole story. Later on, after people have been using E85 and discovered that, even with the lower price at the pump, the lower mileage from E85 is costing them more per mile, they will think Kieth in Iowa flim-flammed them, they will switch right back to 100% arab supplied fuel, and they will mistrust any future attempt to promote alternative, arab free fuels.

However... If Kieth in Iowa instead promoted ethanol by saying something like:

"It's 50¢ cheaper at the pump, but it does still cost a little more per mile because you get a lower mileage with E85. However, it's not so bad because you'll also have the satisfaction of knowing you're not rewarding muslim arab terrorists every time you start your car as well as helping save the environment, and isn't that worth paying a little more per mile?"

Then, when the E85 users notice they're paying more per mile for their fuel use, they'll be forewarned and expecting it, and they'll get a warm feeling from knowing they're sacrificing to ensure we don't have to put up with arab crap or dirty air. And they'll promote E85 to their friends.

We need to promote alternative arab free energy. But we need to do it honestly.

[Keith in Iowa]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth...

[pillbox_girl]

I still maintain that domestic renewable energy sources replacing foreign oil imports is a good thing.

And I never said it wasn't. Please go back and actually read what I've posted, all the way to the bottom of the post, before tossing off responses like this.

[Keith in Iowa]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth...

[Squantos]

Bump for the french fry fuel !..........BIODIESEL !.....:o)

Now which one of those is a urine sample ?!?!?

[pillbox_girl]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth...

Sorry. My fault. That should have been "When mikemikemikecubed says ..."

In my defense, it's late, I've got a lathe misbehaving that needs regular spankings, and I've been switching back and forth between three button unix and two button (and annoying little wheel) windows on three different threads on two different sites. I don't know what I'm cutting and pasting anymore.

[pillbox_girl]

Bump for the french fry fuel

"Freedom Fry Fuel" please.

Now which one of those is a urine sample ?!?!?

And which one is refreshing apple juice? You only get one guess.

Seriously, though, that is some dark BioDiesel. What's the source oil? How was it prescrubbed? Did you use the Acid / Base two stage method or just the plain old titrated base method? And did you bubble wash it?

Still kudos. What'd you burn it in?

Also, something to think about: ethanol can be used to make BioDiesel. And you can drink either (though I personally would recommend the ethanol for preference).

[glock rocks]

New and used Miller?

[Squantos]

Neighbor makes it, but the pics are not of his product. His is much cleaner, he uses lye and something er other and the local deep frying oils from around the area. Works in my dooooge cummins diesel just fine, albeit I use a baja filter in addition to my water seperators and filters on the truck to be safe.......

I get enough of it for free to get me back and forth to work all month. I help him every once in a while go and collect. He's got and old fuel oil truck he collects it in and has a neat little operation , still ?....where he makes it in his barn. Him and his wife are pretty picky about how they do it and they only do it for their family, friends and neighbors and use it in their farm vehicles. Good stuff...........and the price is right.

[Steve Van Doorn]

In California ALL automobile fuel has a sizeable percentage of ethanol. It would be more but the farmer’s can’t keep up with the demand.

Once farmers add to their crops we will see more ethanol will added to fuel, the plan is already in effect signed in by our last governor.

[pillbox_girl]

Neighbor makes it, but the pics are not of his product. His is much cleaner, he uses lye and something er other and the local deep frying oils from around the area.

You probably already know this, but if not, you might want to make sure he washes his final product. He probably does, but it's best to be safe than sorry. A simple wash can fix a lot of the problems of a less than optimal BioDiesel process.

You should get a half a million miles (at least) from your Cummins on straight B100. It would be a shame to get anything less than that because of incompletely washed fuel. And bubble washing is just too darn simple not to do it.

I use a baja filter in addition to my water seperators and filters on the truck to be safe

Good Man! Sounds like you know what you're doing. Just check up on the washing to be sure.

[Squantos]

Yep I like the cummins engine. I have some serious aftermarket goodies duct taped on it like a powered pre-oiler vs the accumulator type, dual water seperators, magnetic drain plugs and sump dump plugs to keep any scrap metal out of the earl and use nothing but amsoil products. Oil gets changed once a month vs mileage variables.

Alledgedly Toyota is in talks with CMI (Cummins) to pick up their engine when Mercedes makes Doooooge use the german diesel vs the cummins in the very near future....alledgedly of course....:o) A HD Crew Cab Toyota Tundra with a cummins would be a nice rig to have.

I'll share yer wash concerns with my source.....thanks for the info !!

Stay safe !

[Mr. Lucky]

You'll have to expalin to me how gluten or DDG's can be produced without producing ethanol.

[RightWhale]

Brazil's fleet used to run on alchohol. Maybe they still do. This suggestion is not particularly radical.

[Graycliff]

Kind of throws a kink in the system when you see that, THANKS.

Throw in a average fuel cost of 9.4 gallons of diesel per acre ( that would vary from soil to soil, and difference in crops used )Then we need to figure in the amount of petroleum based fertilizers, then transportation and distilling costs. Sounds like a feel good fuel to me.

[Graycliff]

All of the products your link shows, require additional processing, something the link didn't include.

state of the art farming?
state of the art distilling?

Sure sounds like increased costs to me.

[Graycliff]

(In fact, I actually believe that none of these purposely obtuse trader-types will EVER allow farmers to make any money. They have a rather bizarre hatred of us)

When they can make a profit, without being subsidized, that might change.

[Graycliff]

Seen a special on that, very interesting.

[Graycliff]

(I get enough of it for free to get me back and forth to work all month.)

When we were kids we'd pull drip gas of the wells locally. It had a higher octane rating than what you got at the pumps. Had to be careful, you could blow the heads of of older motors.