Posted on 06/22/2005 12:16:59 PM PDT by AzaleaCity5691
Former Rep. Nathan Mathis to run for governor 6/21/2005, 6:06 p.m. CT By PHILLIP RAWLS The Associated Press
MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) — Former state Rep. Nathan Mathis announced Tuesday he will run for governor on a gambling platform. And he is doing it by taking a gamble that has traditionally been a loser for Alabama politicians — running as an independent.
If elected, Mathis said he will try to bring casinos to Alabama and would tax them to help fund health care, prisons and state troopers.
Mathis, who served three terms in the Alabama House as a Democrat from Newton, said he will need to get 42,000 voters to sign a petition so he can run as an independent.
Mathis said he plans to run as an independent because he didn't like the way the Democratic Party treated former state Agriculture Commissioner Charles Bishop when he challenged Gov. Don Siegelman in the Democratic primary in 2002. He rates his odds as "long."
Jess Brown, a political scientist at Athens State University, said he can't recall an independent getting elected to statewide office in Alabama. But he said Mathis is taking the right approach to running as an independent — pick a single "lightning rod" issue and try to get voters excited about it.
If nothing else, Mathis' gambling platform may force other candidates to debate an issue they might prefer to avoid, Brown said.
While Mathis jumped into the governor's race Tuesday, the incumbent, Republican Bob Riley, kept brushing off reporters' questions about whether he will seek a second term.
(Excerpt) Read more at al.com ...
Hello, reporter, why don't you actually research it instead of reporting one man's recollection?
Alot of things will happen in 2006, Nate Mathis becoming governor ain't one of them.
It is interesting though that he chose to identify with Charles Bishop. After Bishop lost the 2002 primary to Siegelman, he came out and endorsed Bob Riley.
Rumor is Bishop will be running for statewide office next year as a Republican
And Riley, let's just say, I somehow have a "Riley 2006" bumpersticker on one of my cars right now, so I'm fairly confident he is running for re-election, unless the BCA really leans on him to withdraw, and they'll only do that if they've actually found a replacement
However, when it comes to who will suffer more detriment at the hands of Mathis, Republican or Democrat, I would have to say that will probably be the Republicans, especially if Roy Moore ends up to be nominee.
Biloxi/Gulfport (not to mention Philadelphia) is too far ahead in the gambling arena for Alabama to make the jump now....Mobile and Jefferson County? I suppose if they built in Jefferson they might get some Atlanta/Bham traffic...but Mobile seems too late to the party IMO.
Much of the customer base for Biloxi comes from Mobile, and many Mobilians would be more than happy to spend money at local casinos/
Not to mention, Mobile is also on the way between Pensacola and Biloxi, and many of those Pensacolans would be just as eager to save gas.
Plus, gambling doesn't have to be just casinos, for about a decade, my cousin in Charleston ran a very successful video poker business (which I lent him the money to set up)
Video Poker would work real well in Alabama, especially since many establishments already have "redemption" machines.
There is also one huge area where gambling would easily outstrip Biloxi, and that's Orange Beach. Biloxi may have casinos, but they don't have the kind of Condo or beach tourist trade O.B and G.S have.
Not to mention, Mobile also has the Cruise Ship port, which could certainly help boost gambling revenues (if we do legalize it)
My personal opinion is, it should only be legal in Mobile and Baldwin, because the Baptists don't want it to be legal and I respect that, however, they do not compose anything near a working majority in Mobile or Baldwin.
Since I know a fair amount about Alabama politics, I can confirm no Independent has ever won statewide office.
I know, Azalea, you are a Moore hater. But if he runs for the GOP Gubernatorial nomination, he will get it. Bob Riley is, for lack of a better phrase, "done for." Lucy Baxley will eat him for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
Rob Gunzberger has Charles Bishop as a potential candidate for Baxley's open Lieutenant-Governorship, but Bishop may also have competition from fmr. Secretary of State Jim Bennett, ex-Justice Terry Butts (a party switcher), whom I'd presume would be Moore's choice, and also another big name, none other than PSC Commissioner George Wallace, Jr. The rest of the GOP candidates are fairly minor (with the exception of fmr. Rep. Perry Hooper, Jr.). The 'Rats potential big names are both leaders in the House and Senate, Ken Guin & Zeb Little, along with Sen. Wendell Mitchell and ex-State Auditor Susan Parker. This one will certainly be a real barnburner (and if all of the above people throw their hats in, this race may prove even more interesting than the Governorship).
As it stands now, I will be strongly supporting Chief Justice Moore for the Governorship.
"Lucy Baxley will eat him for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. "
I personally don't think she's going to be Democratic nominee. Lucy is at a real disadvantage because the Gay Marriage Ban vote goes up in the first round of the primary.
Now, of Democratic constiuencies, who's most likely to support the gay marriage ban....blacks
What is Lucy Baxley's constituency....trial lawyers and white women.
Don Siegelman has been very good at mobilizing blacks to vote for him, and he has been equally good at gaining business support
Now, who was the biggest financial backer, by industry, of the Roy Moore Supreme Court Slate (Think Terry Butts)
Now, take this into consideration, there is only one point in history where any significant tort reform has passed in Alabama. Name the governor who signed it.....
That was the deal he made with the business community for their support in 1998, if they promised to actively support him (this was after their candidate had lost the primary), once in office he'd have to get some meaningful tort reform passed, which he did. And this is why the business community, didn't completely abandon him in 2002 (not to say there wasn't defection, but nothing like what happened to Fob)
Siegelman is also a purified swamp rat who will stoop to any level to get his old job back and "ressurect his name before history"
In the question of who can better play the role of moderate/conservative, Don or Lucy, I think that award clearly would go to Don, despite the fact he is a crook.
Because in Alabama, we almost automatically assume a female running for office as a sign of "liberalism", I know this first hand because I was with Bedsole in 1994.
I believe Riley could beat Don, and that is why I am supporting him right now, because it is my belief Don Siegelman will be the ultimate victor in the Democratic primary. Most Democratic legislators, if you ask them who are they more loyal to, Don or Lucy, a very large majority will say Don.
Trial Lawyer money will go to Roy and Lucy, Business money will go to Bob and Don, and I believe the AEA will be active in both primaries, once again for Roy and Lucy respectively. (Siegelman never really patched things up with Hubbert)
In a race between Lucy and Roy, Mathis would probably get 30% of the vote in Mobile County (if he tried) just because of who Lucy used to be married to.
So I take it Mathis would take more votes away from the Democrat nominee (whether Siegelman or Baxter) than the Republican nominee (whether Moore, Riley or someone else). Are the Democrats going to pull any tricks to keep him from qualifying for the ballot?
Actually, Mathis would take away votes equally.
I used to live in a neighborhood called Spring Hill, which is somewhat upscale, and I used to vote at SHBC, which is Mobile County Precinct # 52
http://www.mobile-county.net/probate/
Go to this site, go to pass elections, and there will be a column listing all the precincts on the side of the screen
Click on 52 and see what results come up, remember, Tom Parker was clearly known as the "Roy Moore" candidate
Compare his results to other Republican judicial candidates, and remember that probably 10% of the total GOP vote was likely straight ticket (that number is probably higher, just using an example)
Also, look at the vote for Amendment 2 in this precinct.
I think it will be very informative, to say the least....
Unless something truly dramatic happens, I don't see how Lucy Baxley is NOT the Dem nominee next year. The party would be committing seppaku by nominating sleazy Donnie. If Donnie decides to run a mean-spirited slash 'n burn campaign against Lucy, I don't see how that doesn't blow up in his face.
Ann Bedsole was a real gem, a liberal pro-abort RINO. Up here in Tennessee, she'd be called a "Belle Meade Republican." I'm glad Fob beat her in that primary. Sad to say that Fob didn't pay enough attention to the business end of things during his term, but I still like the guy.
My sole concern regarding Moore is that that same issue that sunk Fob might sink him. For all practical purposes, he STILL should be on the court. Riley could've shown some major-league brass balls to have put Moore right back on the court again, and that alone would have caused his positives amongst the GOP base to skyrocket, despite all of his numerous mistakes... but, he didn't. Riley was an excellent Congressman, but as soon as he got to Montgomery, he's been a disaster. He too much reminds me of my ex-RINO Gov. Don Scumquist who left our party in shambles by the time he left office in '03 (and all but handed the keys to his 'Rat successor).
I would tend to agree that Riley might be able to pull off a 2nd win against Donnie, but then again, he might not. I don't see under any scenario how Riley wins the primary over Moore. Again, it's really a shame. Riley could've really left his mark and been an excellent Governor, but when will these pols learn that you can't screw your base and jump the shark and expect people to stay with you. Maybe you can pull that crap as a 'Rat, but elephants never forget.
Judge Graddick would have to have a burning pathological hatred to kneecap Roy Moore and support Lucy. For him to forgive the fact her ex stole the Governorship from him would be absolutely astonishing.
About Judge Graddick, let me tell you what would motivate Graddick to cross Moore (if he did)
Graddick is Catholic, Pryor is Catholic, Siegelman is Catholic, I am Catholic.
In Mobile, being Catholic counts for something, and most Catholics here are raised in a certain way, a way that makes them very hostile to people of Roy Moore's type
Let's just say Mobile Catholics and the Evangelical Right have never gotten along, and likely never will. They may cooperate on issues regarding abortion, but that's about it, there is too long a history of animosity for most Catholics here to sweep it under the rug.
If you took a poll of Catholic Republicans and asked them who they voted for in 1998, a majority will say Don Siegelman.
Siegelman was the first (and only) Catholic to ever preside as governor of Alabama.
I will be honest, since 1980, the only time I have ever voted for a Democratic candidate in a general gubernatorial election was 1998, as I saw it, Siegelman was defending the honor of my religion, of my city, and well, of the man who got screwed in 1986.
In the time honored words of Gretchen Wilson "I'm a product of my raisin'"
"Ann Bedsole was a real gem, a liberal pro-abort RINO. Up here in Tennessee, she'd be called a "Belle Meade Republican." I'm glad Fob beat her in that primary. Sad to say that Fob didn't pay enough attention to the business end of things during his term, but I still like the guy."
In 1978, both Bedsole and Fob were elected to office. Bedsole as a Republican, James as a Democrat. James remained a Democrat until 1994. He did not deserve to win that primary.
Another thing about Bedsole, she's running for Mayor of Mobile right now, and her campaign manager is Sonny Callahan.
Alabama would have been much better off with Governor Bedsole, because Bedsole had connections all over the country, some of her husbands, many of her own, and she would have been able to recruit industry to this state, something Fob couldn't do with his Religious Right posture.
"Riley could've shown some major-league brass balls to have put Moore right back on the court again,"
If he had done that, a candidate who was recieving business backing would have already announced for Governor. The reason Riley is governor today is because the business community DID NOT want Governor Steve Windom. He killed his career the day he had the jug incident.
The business community of this state has had it out for Moore since he announced he was running against their favorite candidate, Harold See, way back in 2000.
The business community actively campaigned for his ouster for the court, and they contributed a good deal of money to the effort too.
If it seriously looks that Riley is tanking, the business community will ask someone to jump into the race, because a Roy Moore primary victory = Democratic Governor.
"I don't see under any scenario how Riley wins the primary over Moore". If Riley makes the primary race a race about Roy Moore and his connections to trial lawyers, the margins he wins in the Big 4 and big suburban counties (Baldwin, Shelby) will be more than enough to offset Moores margins in rural areas.
It would be close, but Bob can come out on top. There's no damn way Moore wins Mobile County under any circumstances.
You do understand how that sounds, though ?
"Let's just say Mobile Catholics and the Evangelical Right have never gotten along, and likely never will. They may cooperate on issues regarding abortion, but that's about it, there is too long a history of animosity for most Catholics here to sweep it under the rug."
I regard a lot of that as simply petty. We're all Christian Conservatives, and we need to unite. For the purposes of full disclosure, I am neither Catholic or Evangelical (despite having been "tarred" as both at some point), I am simply Christian, period.
"If you took a poll of Catholic Republicans and asked them who they voted for in 1998, a majority will say Don Siegelman. Siegelman was the first (and only) Catholic to ever preside as governor of Alabama."
And, again, that is truly unfortunate. As we all know now the danger in voting for Catholics still affiliated with the 'Rat party. Those are CINOs (and the "C" could just as well stand for "Christian", too).
"I will be honest, since 1980, the only time I have ever voted for a Democratic candidate in a general gubernatorial election was 1998, as I saw it, Siegelman was defending the honor of my religion, of my city, and well, of the man who got screwed in 1986."
You put your faith in the wrong man and the wrong party. Again, also for the purposes of full disclosure, I also voted for the 'Rat nominee for Tennessee Governor in 1998, but not for any religious reason. Namely because the smell of RINO and the hint of corruption was wafting from the direction of our Governor. The 'Rat was more "right" on the issues then our dear beloved Donnie Scumquist.
"In the time honored words of Gretchen Wilson "I'm a product of my raisin'"
Fortunately for some of us, we rise above.
"In 1978, both Bedsole and Fob were elected to office. Bedsole as a Republican, James as a Democrat. James remained a Democrat until 1994. He did not deserve to win that primary."
How long one has been a Republican isn't a preeminent issue for me, as I am, too, a convert to the party. Often the converts are more effective at pushing the agenda. Saying that, Fob HAD been a Republican when the party could caucus in a phone booth, but since the party was not particularly viable in the '70s statewide (with the exception of Jack Edwards, Bill Dickinson, and future apostate John Buchanan), and the AL Democrat party still had lots of "Conservatives", he felt he could be more effective as one. It is unfortunate he couldn't "stick it out" at the time, but if the 1978 Governor's race was any example, he would've played Guy Hunt's role (who lost in one of the biggest landslides since the party became competitive). By the time '94 came around, Bedsole could claim to be more "loyal" to the party, but what she couldn't claim was that she was more Conservative.
"Another thing about Bedsole, she's running for Mayor of Mobile right now, and her campaign manager is Sonny Callahan."
I know, but it looks like Sam Jones will prevail. I'd probably prefer John Peavy, but I haven't endorsed anyone.
"Alabama would have been much better off with Governor Bedsole, because Bedsole had connections all over the country, some of her husbands, many of her own, and she would have been able to recruit industry to this state, something Fob couldn't do with his Religious Right posture."
Recruiting business was Fob's sore point, but it is unfortunate that we couldn't have a candidate that is strong on business AND strong on morality. A pro-abort Republican is as apostatic to the values of the party as a pro-slave candidate would be.
"If (Riley) he had done that (reappointed Moore to the bench), a candidate who was recieving business backing would have already announced for Governor. The reason Riley is governor today is because the business community DID NOT want Governor Steve Windom. He killed his career the day he had the jug incident."
Then the business community doesn't deserve someone of Windom's calibre. The 'Rats in the Senate were preparing to strip Windom of his legitimate authority so that His Majesty (Don) could have absolute power, so Windom had little choice but to refuse to relinquish the podium. Perhaps you view it with disdain and the media helped make Windom look "strange" as a result and a "laughing-stock," but those with a little more knowledge of the incident view it quite differently. I'll bet if Donnie had been a Republican and Windom a liberal 'Rat, the media would've "spun" it in a completely different direction. So, again, before you knock the guy for his courage (yes, courage), what would you have done in his shoes ? It's too bad Windom didn't end up as Governor, he sure as hell was a better man than Riley (and I say that as one who supported Riley in the primary).
"The business community of this state has had it out for Moore since he announced he was running against their favorite candidate, Harold See, way back in 2000. The business community actively campaigned for his ouster for the court, and they contributed a good deal of money to the effort too."
See was little more than a nuisance candidate, and his being in that contest was embarrassing. It's sad to see the business community lining up with the weak-kneed RINOs who conduct themselves no different than the national 'Rat party.
"If it seriously looks that Riley is tanking, the business community will ask someone to jump into the race, because a Roy Moore primary victory = Democratic Governor."
Riley is already toast. Go around the state and ask people how they feel about him. I have. Republican primary voters are already mostly behind Moore. I mean, the business community can either get with the program and have their agenda be on the forefront with a Gov. Moore, or they can back a loser. I mean, who else are they going to go to besides Riley ? Tim James ? Then again, maybe Moore might not run at all and chooses to back a slate of candidates instead.
"If Riley makes the primary race a race about Roy Moore and his connections to trial lawyers, the margins he wins in the Big 4 and big suburban counties (Baldwin, Shelby) will be more than enough to offset Moores margins in rural areas. It would be close, but Bob can come out on top. There's no damn way Moore wins Mobile County under any circumstances."
Hey, I'm no fan of the trial lawyers (nor is most of the GOP), but if it comes down to a personality contest. All Moore will have to say is that he valiantly stood on his Constitutional rights and lost his job as a result vs. a man who sold out his principles as Governor (in direct contrast to his service in Washington). This isn't even a contest. If I were Riley at this point, I'd try to preserve my dignity by announcing I'm not running for a 2nd term. I'd have a whole lot more respect for him.
There seem to be a number of folks who feel the way that you do about Moore. I'd like to ask you a question. Setting aside the general Moore issue of the Ten Commandments / judicial power / acknowledgement of God debate [on which point we all know pretty well where Moore stands], can you tell me what you consider to be the three most important issues of state government facing Alabama today, and what Roy Moore's position on each of those issues is?
How I feel about Moore is technically irrelevent, as I am not an Alabama voter, and we have enough problems to deal with here in Tennessee. You're a Georgia voter, are you not ? I cannot give you an answer to the question of the "top three" except to address it in generic terms (tax reform, education reform, gerrymandered districts, and doing something about that unwieldy State Constitution). Alabama (and GA) has "resolved" problems my state has not (namely something as "democratic" (small "d") as allowing "the people" to vote on statewide offices and on the judiciary, where unaccountable hacks infest EVERY position). I cannot answer where Moore would stand on these issues, as he (to my knowledge) has not laid out his platform for his run next year. I can only presume it would be a "Conservative" one. The one area where he would presumably be deficient would likely be in the area of business recruitment (where Fob James also proved to be deficient), and it is where he will need to some work on. That probably doesn't answer your questions as much as you'd like, but it's all I can say until I know more.
My point, which I know you caught, is obvious. There are lots of folks who profess lots of love for the idea of Moore as governor, but don't have the slightest idea of his positions on any issue other than the general Ten Commandments / judicial power debate. Alabama is flat-broke, and no one has the slightest idea what Moore's view on addressing the fiscal crisis would be. No one has the slightest idea what Moore's view on the pitiful state of the Alabama educational system will be. No one has the slightest idea what Moore's view on the culture of corruption in state Government will be. We have a pretty good idea what his view would be on the runaway tort system in Alabama, because he is beholden to the trial lawyers and was pretty plaintiff-friendly as a judge.
In other words, if you want a quixotic battle with the perceived 'forces of evil,' Moore's your man. If you want someone to actually take some positive action to address Alabama's real, everyday problems, there is no basis to think he would be that person.
"Riley is already toast. Go around the state and ask people how they feel about him. I have. Republican primary voters are already mostly behind Moore. I mean, the business community can either get with the program and have their agenda be on the forefront with a Gov. Moore, or they can back a loser. I mean, who else are they going to go to besides Riley ? Tim James ? Then again, maybe Moore might not run at all and chooses to back a slate of candidates instead. "
Get with what program, Roy Moore has made it a point to constantly belittle the primary business lobby in the state (the people that elected Riley), the Business Council of Alabama. State Business leaders wanted Amendment 2 to pass, Moore did not, with that he threw away any chance of getting serious business support, because the overwhelming majority of business leaders in this state do not like the image that this state has. They'd rather Alabama be another North Carolina (minus the extreme influx of Yankees)
"Republican primary voters are already mostly behind Moore"
Not in this county they ain't and the same goes for the Eastern Shore, and you forget one thing. If a third Republican candidate (a foil) enters the primary, then there will be a runoff between Roy and Bob, and as you probably are aware, Alabama primary election law allows anyone who votes in any primary the first time to vote in any runoff the second time. If there are only 2 Dem candidates, then there will be no runoff for them, meaning, there are 300,000 potential voters who will be able to cross over in the runoff.
Nope, I can only be a cheerleader for him on this board. Same as I was for Sen. McClintock in CA (now if only Alabama had a McClintock !).
"My point, which I know you caught, is obvious. There are lots of folks who profess lots of love for the idea of Moore as governor, but don't have the slightest idea of his positions on any issue other than the general Ten Commandments / judicial power debate."
If you go back to my earliest posts on Moore and the possibility of his challenging Riley, it was always my concern that we don't know where he stands on all other relevant issues he would have to deal with as Governor. Moore, of course, has served in no other position than as Judge (first on the Circuit Court, and second on the State Supreme Court), and it's a whole other ballgame jumping from the Judicial to the Executive. Whereas as a judicial figure, he would have "final say", as Governor, he would not (assuming something he did was challenged legally). In all honesty, I'd prefer him in the judiciary. Assuming he does not (or rather is unable to) rise to the occasion in being able to deal with Alabama's other pressing issues that you cited, the claims of the anti-Moore crowd will prove correct. Until he comes out with his platform (beyond and above the religious angle) and educating himself on what he will need to do as Governor, I can only make guesses regarding his potential performance. He can only be judged now against the sitting incumbent, and Gov. Riley has bungled the job on too many fronts that he is no longer entitled to renomination. I tried to give Riley the benefit of the doubt, even defending some of his unpopular actions early on (all in my posts on FR), but I simply can't anymore. Alas, that is politics, having to often choose between flawed candidates. Until Moore proves otherwise, he is simply a better choice than the incumbent.
I forgot to respond to this point. This is where I'd disagree with the judge. Tort reform is an important position to me, albeit secondary to his valiant stand on religion. I would hope Moore would "grow" on this issue and modify his stance.
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