Confessions of a Right-Wing Liberal

More like, if we hadn't gotten involved in WWI, there would have been no Nazism

I would like to see how you arrive at this conclusion.

and if Russia even went Communist at all

WTF? The U.S. involvement in WW1 caused the Boleshevik revolution? First of all the Russian Revolution took place before the U.S. declared war. And your pals the Germans, who you seem to gloss over, had a very heavy hand in that.

Those guys would have been fighting each other, rather than fighting us.

IF that was the case, one of them would have won, and would be even more stronger than before.

We could still have had a world-class military.

The time to engage your enemies is when your ready, not when the enemy is. Churchill made this quite clear.

Your arguements are so mindless i dont even know why i am engaging in them. Although i did find out that poeple actually eat up the tripe that Buchannanites put out.

1. The War of 1812 was a rather pointless war started by the young "War Hawks" (that is where the term came from) in Congress who wanted to prove the US was a big player on the world stage.

I'd have to question that one. Britain was yanking our men off our merchant ships and impressing them into their naval service. What were we supposed to do?

5. In WWII we should have let the Nazis and the Communists wipe each other out and should have only gone after the Japanese (who attacked us). Pat Buchannan has taken this position as well. This may very well have prevented the Cold War.

I might agree, except when it comes to the issue of nuclear weapons. We couldn't afford to let Germany get them first. I admit I don't really know the dynamics of the whole situation, so take that comment for what it's worth.

[More like, if we hadn't gotten involved in WWI, there would have been no Nazism]

I would like to see how you arrive at this conclusion.

Do you know anything about the origins of the Nazi Party, and the political and economic conditions that provided fertile ground for it? I just had to ask, so that I'd know what you'd need to be filled in on.

WTF? The U.S. involvement in WW1 caused the Boleshevik revolution? First of all the Russian Revolution took place before the U.S. declared war.

No, the Czar abdicated (February) before we declared war in April, but Russia continued fighting in the war under a non-Communist provisional government. The Bolshevik Revolution didn't happen until November.

You'll note that I didn't say that not getting involved in the war would definitely have prevented the Communists from coming to power there. What it would have done is caused Russia to back out of the war earlier than it did. What the consequence would have been of that is for the most part anybody's guess, but it wouldn't have been worse than having a Communist Russia with a destabilized Germany next door, which is what ended up happening as a result of our intervention.

[Those guys would have been fighting each other, rather than fighting us.]

IF that was the case, one of them would have won, and would be even more stronger than before.

The Communists wouldn't have beaten Germany, and Germany would not have been able to take over Russia (as it found out the hard way in WWII). They simply would have been vying for control of Eastern Europe. And it's unlikely the fighting would have made them any stronger in the final analysis.

[We could still have had a world-class military.]

The time to engage your enemies is when your ready, not when the enemy is.

We have potential enemies all over the world. Our military is sufficient to prevent them from doing anything stupid. Or are you advocating that we attack China?

1. Agreed. It was unneccesary.

2. That is a nice theory. Too bad the Southerners started the shooting by firing on Fort Sumtner.

3. Don't know much about it but I don't doubt we started it.

4. WWI was just one big mistake by everyone.

"5. Here is a simple timeline:

Dec 7, 1941 - Japan attacks Pearl Harbor
Dec 8, 1941 - US and Britain declare war on Japan.
Dec 11, 1941 - Germany declares war on the United States. US declares war on Germany and Italy.

Germany declared war on the US first. We acted in response to them. Woods is just wrong.

...Do you know anything about the origins of the Nazi Party...

Thanks, but im not so old enough to forget 7th grade level history, but that was a great way to dodge the question. The U.S. wanted a fair peace, France wanted punishment. They did took more of the fighting and so had more of say when it came to the table. The U.S. was minor player when it came to German war debts and such.

No, the Czar abdicated (February) before we declared war in April

Yes, that was called the Russian Revolution, which sewed the seeds for the October Revolution which the Bolsheviks took power. This was an event that took years to happen, not something that the U.S. entering the war could affect. You seem pretty confident in your completely baseless assumption that the provisional government would have immediatly surrendered had the U.S. not entered the war, and also that the Bolsheviks would have ceased all efforts to take power. You also seem to be deliberatly ignoring the heavy hand the German intelligence had in assissting the Bolshevik rise to power.

They simply would have been vying for control of Eastern Europe.

How long do you think this would remain a border skirmish in Eastern Europe???

The U.S. wanted a fair peace, France wanted punishment.

The U.S. didn't push very hard for it. And France's wish for punishment wouldn't have come true if we hadn't gotten involved.

They did took more of the fighting and so had more of say when it came to the table.

By what system of moral reasoning? We saved their sorry behinds, and we did it by making a promise to the Germans that we weren't willing to back up. France, on the other hand, most certainly had its share of the blame for the war itself, when it was being deliberately provocative of Germany, to the point of flying reconnaissance missions over its territory prior to the outbreak of open hostilities between them. What would you advocate doing if another country was violating our airspace like that, and making other belligerent moves? Didn't you say something earlier about not doing things on the enemy's timetable?

You seem pretty confident in your completely baseless assumption that the provisional government would have immediatly surrendered had the U.S. not entered the war

Did I say immediately? I said they would have folded sooner, unless you think our entry into the war was really that insignificant.

You also seem to be deliberatly ignoring the heavy hand the German intelligence had in assissting the Bolshevik rise to power.

They had a strategic interest in doing so in order to get Russia out of the war. But if Russia lost sooner, then Germany might not have had to get involved with the Bolsheviks.

How long do you think this would remain a border skirmish in Eastern Europe???

Quite a while. And if for whatever reason they decided to try their hand over here, they wouldn't have gotten very far.

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