Posted on 06/18/2005 5:32:42 AM PDT by SLB
The Navy wants to let go of its last two battleships. But a group called the United States Naval Fire Support Association is doing its best to torpedo that plan. Both sides are firing salvos across newspaper op-ed pages.
The issue: Does a weapon that was born in the 19th century and came to maturity in the 20th century still have a role in the 21st?
The answer could well decide whether the battleships Iowa and Wisconsin rejoin the fleet-in-being - or whether they'll join their sister ships Missouri and New Jersey as floating museums to an age gone by.
(Excerpt) Read more at stltoday.com ...
The same effect was achieved in the Gulf War by B-52 strikes all along the entire Iraqi entrechment line and not just near the coast.
The heavy ordnance capabilities of the B-52's do not come to a abrupt halt 20 miles inland.
Any oil fired ship makes smoke, especially on cold fireup. I have put fuels of every specification aboard US & foreign ships as well as the newest Navy destroyers. Every liquid hydrocarbon throws off soot when burned. The days of standing off shore and lobbing shells 15 or 20 miles inland is over, especially in Asia.
When I hear this from James Webb I'll listen.
"As a downside, during the show, a Silkworm missile headed straight for Missouri, but was intercepted by two Sea Dart missiles from the British warship HMS Gloucester."
It sounds like that is what supposed to happen in war. There is risk and the enemy is supposed to be able to shoot back at you. The threat was neutralized sucessfully by a countermeasure designed to deal with it.
"Such a feint could have been accomplished by B-52 carpet bombing of the coast at very little risk"
True but it cannot be sustained and delivered upon demand. Those planes usually come from a long way and you have to wait for them to sortie. Sometimes hours.
"In addition, the range of the BB is extremely limited. Once the action moves 20 miles inland, the big guns of the BB are as utterly useless in the war as the guns of a 1905 era coastal artillery fort. By contrast, air-power can deliver 2000 pond GBU-31 JDAM's with a 10 meter CEP (Circular Error Probable) anywhere on the battlefield."
NSWC Dalghren has developed and sucessfully tested over the years the BBs were reactivated, RAP 16" shells utilizing existing shell casings which can be fired up to distances of 115 miles maybe more. They also have GPS guidance built into them and can be directed into targets like JDAM's with similar accuracy. The shells can carry multiple payloads including HE, bomblets and WMD type munitions. Cruise missile capacity can be augmented easily utilizing the Mk 41 VLS system.
"As a result, in 1999, the Navy concluded:"
Pre 9/11 thinking. I work as a consultant to both the Navy and USMC and know people in the know. There has been a lot of change of sentiment towards to BB's especially the Marine Corps brass at MCCDC and MARCORSYSCOM.
Range of 16-inch naval gun: 21 miles.
Range of shore-based Silkworm missile: 57 miles.
Range of shore-based Hai Ying-3 missile: 90 miles.
That's why I worry about aircraft carriers. They're so big, and expensive, and have lots of highly trained sailors. I understand that they are surrounded by a sophisticated battle group but one "lucky" hit and we have a heck of a big loss.
The smoke they make is not the thick black smoke you say. It is very faint and barely visible. Look at the pictures especially of BB's underway. It is highly unlikely a ship that would be in action at sea would be in a state of cold fireup. Its boilers or turbines would have been running long enough to where the smoke signature is near nil.
Range of RAP GPS guided 16" shell: 115 miles
A ship equipped with these munitions can stand outside the effective range of these weapons and destroy them.
Range of sea-launched Tomahawk with 1,000 lb Bullpup warhead: 350 miles
You can kill the enemy missile launchers with them or with B-52 strikes long before the littoral force gets into the theatre of operations.
I've done an (Analysis of Alternatives) AoA on littoral systems and the BB is still the most cost effective platform that can sustain bombardment in a theatre of operations. Best bang for the buck in coastal operations.
Iraq is sucking up too much of our Defense budget to allow for spending billions to mordernize the ships and return them to service, and devote 5000 officers and men to man them.
"A fleet of cheap UAVs (the price will come down over time) armed with the latest munitions provides a unique capability."
I have been working on FCS for three years as one of my projects and a lot has to do with UAVs and UGVs. The size of the UAV needed to deliver munitions of the destructive power of a 16" inch shell will never be cheap. I believe UAV's will be highly effective in the situational awareness and in munitions delivery roles but it is not the end-all.
I suspect the wiring was replaced during refits during past yard visits. As far as something being decrepit because it's old, a relative lives in a fifty year old house. The original water heater is still in service. It's a Rudd with a monel tank. You can't buy one of those today. I have no idea what it would cost if you could. If left in service, I suspect the same heater would be working fifty years from now.
Sometime in the future the house will probably be sold and the new owner will immediately replace the old tank with a newer one that might, if they're lucky, last six years. From that point on they'll have a cyclic water heater replacement cost. The same goes for the central AC and furnace. Both are original and still running.
Stuff made fifty years ago and longer wasn't made with obsolescence in mind. It was over-engineered for reliability.
checking in
One well placed modern torpedo hit could sink the Iowa. Break her back in two.
Those ships are 50 years old with an average of 10 years of service. They were designed with a 50 year service life which they have barely used. The USS Enterprise has been on active duty since 1961 (44 years of active service and still going strong)
I believe you.
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