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To: johnnyb_61820
(1) there was no carnivory before the fall -- animals were given plants to eat. The fossil record shows that animals were already eating animals

Where does the Bible say there were no predators before the Fall?

(2) it was said that before the fall, creation was "Very good", yet we see Dinosaurs with cancer

So? Where is it written that animal death is evil? If animal death is evil, why is it that hunting is not a sin?

(3) the sequence of creation is wrong from an evolutionary standpoint

It's also wrong from a botanistic standpoint, a cosmological standpoint, a meteorological standpoint, as in addition to contradicting basic astronomy.

Plus, if taken literally, the sequence in Genesis 1 contradicts Genesis 2.

Only the willfully blind could possibly it literally.

(4) the timing is off -- in Exodus it is quite clear when God said "in six days" that he was not talking figuratively.

Please show me where God says he was not talking figuratively.

(5) the fact of mediation does not imply evolution, specifically since it has kinds, which are then re-gathered during the flood

No, but it's more compatible with evolution than it is with special creation.

(6) it leaves no room for the biblical flood in the fossil record. Did a worldwide catastrophe leave no mark?

No, and yet you still choose to believe in a worldwide catastrophe, despite the fact there is no evidence for it.

Please show me where in the Bible it says the catastrophe was world-wide.

(7) it still leaves the "soulless hominid" theory intact, which says that man was making tools and war with each other long before Adam.

Only extremely primitive tools, not much more sophisticated than what Chimps can make.

This can't be labelled as "very good".

Why not?

46 posted on 06/17/2005 4:46:20 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity
Where does the Bible say there were no predators before the Fall?

"And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have given] every green herb for meat: and it was so."(Genesis 1:30)

What was given for meat? Vegetation. This was to every beast of the earth.

So? Where is it written that animal death is evil? If animal death is evil, why is it that hunting is not a sin?

Because after the flood, God gave this new commandment:

"Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things." (Genesis 9:3)

It's also wrong from a botanistic standpoint, a cosmological standpoint, a meteorological standpoint, as in addition to contradicting basic astronomy.

Then you have to choose whether you believe God or man's account. Given how man's knowledge is limitted and God's isn't, and how God was there and we were not, I'm going to rely on His account. Now, if you don't believe that scripture is true, then why are you bothering defending your view of evolution from a scriptural standpoint?

Plus, if taken literally, the sequence in Genesis 1 contradicts Genesis 2.

In what way? There is nothing I've seen people offer as contradictions which are truly so.

No, but it's more compatible with evolution than it is with special creation.

By what twisted logic do you come up with the idea that evolutionary speciation are more compatible with Biblical kinds than Biblical kinds?

Please show me where God says he was not talking figuratively.

You think that the 10 commandments are figurative? That's a very odd interpretation indeed.

No, and yet you still choose to believe in a worldwide catastrophe, despite the fact there is no evidence for it.

Only (quoting Ken Ham) billions of dead things, buried in rock layers, laid down by water all over the earth. Plus the fact that there is evidence of continental-wide waterflows on each of the continents, and secularly well-published geologists who have developed a model to show how it happened and how it better explains modern geology than other theories. Plus there is the ubiquitous presence of C14 in all rock layers of the earth.

Please show me where in the Bible it says the catastrophe was world-wide.

I don't see why you want Biblical proof as you've mentioned previously that it doesn't matter to you what the Bible says if modern science thinks differently (despite the fact that modern science -- quite apart from the Bible -- rejected the heliocentric model of planetary motions because of the evidence at the time -- just to show that man's ideas are limitted and easily shown to be false by later evidence). But, anyway, here it is - Genesis 7:19-24.

Tell me, if it were a local flood, why load up the animals? How did the boat stay afloat for a whole year before finding land? How did it cover all known mountains, but only for a local region? How did all land animals die out? Why the need for an ark at all? Why not just tell Noah -- hey, go move over here where there won't be a flood? Anyway, Genesis 7:19-24 clearly say several times and in several ways that it is worldwide, including "and all the high hills, that [were] under the whole heaven, were covered.", "And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained [alive], and they that [were] with him in the ark."

61 posted on 06/17/2005 8:31:07 PM PDT by johnnyb_61820
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