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Arnold (MO) is considering cameras as traffic cops
STLToday.com ^ | 6/15/2005 | Matthew Hathaway

Posted on 06/16/2005 7:57:31 AM PDT by scott7278

If you run a red light in Arnold, you could get a ticket, even if you don't get pulled over by a police officer.

The City Council is expected to vote tonight on a proposal to install cameras at the city's busiest traffic intersections. Car owners will be issued citations in the mail, even if they weren't the ones driving.

To issue a ticket under the plan, the camera would have to capture high-resolution images of the car license plate and the signal clearly shining red. The proposed ordinance says people inside the vehicle - including the driver - will not be photographed. Whoever the vehicle is registered to would be ticketed, unless that person can prove someone else was driving. Scofflaws would be fined $94.50, the same as if they were ticketed the old-fashioned way.

If council members approve the plan - and the city's mayor believes they will - Arnold will be the first community in the St. Louis area to install the so-called red-light cameras.

Elsewhere, the cameras have met with mixed reaction and even accusations that cities have changed the timing of some signals to reap extra revenue.

Arnold Mayor Mark Powell says he expects the cameras to pay for themselves, but he says safety is the city's motivation. He said the city initially would install cameras at two busy intersections - Jeffco Boulevard and Highway 141 and Richardson and Vogel roads - and atop a traffic light near Rockport Heights Elementary School.

Powell said the city isn't trying to invade privacy, and it doesn't plan to crack down on drivers who barely run a red light.

(Excerpt) Read more at stltoday.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Missouri
KEYWORDS: bigbrother; greed; iwantyourmoney; roadtax
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To: scott7278

Looks like their revenue collection program provides jobs for at least eight people.


41 posted on 06/16/2005 9:47:25 AM PDT by Charles Henrickson (Clayton, MO)
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To: demsux

That's a little bit northeast of Kirksville, isn't it?


42 posted on 06/16/2005 9:52:26 AM PDT by scott7278 (Before I give you the benefit of my reply, I'd like to know what we're talking about.)
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To: demsux

Kirkwood, not Kirksville.


43 posted on 06/16/2005 9:52:56 AM PDT by scott7278 (Before I give you the benefit of my reply, I'd like to know what we're talking about.)
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To: scott7278
Let them do it. Anyone who runs a red light should expect to be prosecuted.

I drive in Arnold every day and don't run red lights.

If they start trying to issue speeding tickets with cameras, then I will protest.

44 posted on 06/16/2005 9:57:29 AM PDT by SCALEMAN (Super Cards/Rams Fan)
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To: scott7278
To issue a ticket under the plan, the camera would have to capture high-resolution images of the car license plate and the signal clearly shining red. The proposed ordinance says people inside the vehicle - including the driver - will not be photographed. Whoever the vehicle is registered to would be ticketed, unless that person can prove someone else was driving.

I think this one will be dead under innocent until proven guilty. If they don't photo the driver how can they prove it was that person that committed teh crime ?

The slippery slope is gone. We're in freefall now.

45 posted on 06/16/2005 9:58:37 AM PDT by Centurion2000 ("THE REDNECK PROBLEM" ..... we prefer the term, "Agro-Americans")
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To: frnewsjunkie
The caution lights are long enough... then 4-5 more cars will go through on the red

In the St Louis area (Arnold qualifies), a yellow light means speed up, not caution. Drivers see a yellow light from a block away and speed up to get to and through the intersection.

I moved here in '78. About a month after we moved here, I was driving with one of my neighbors to a football game. The light ahead of me (about 3/4 block) turned yellow, I braked and my passenger started yelling at me.. what the hell are you doing... etc etc.

46 posted on 06/16/2005 10:04:44 AM PDT by SCALEMAN (Super Cards/Rams Fan)
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To: Charles Henrickson
Me either. I got a ticket on I-55 going through Arnold last December. They were using an airplane, the sneaks

I didn't know that Arnold had or used an airplane. Might it have been the Highway Patrol?

47 posted on 06/16/2005 10:07:47 AM PDT by SCALEMAN (Super Cards/Rams Fan)
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To: scott7278
St. George was the worst when I was there, and it doesn't surprise me that it still is. From what I heard, they would stop you for going 1 over, and then you'd have to go to court to get your license back. Does that sound right?

I don't know about 1 over. Several years ago one of the news stations and the paper did an investigation of 'speed traps'. Since then St George has settled down.

Velda Village also was a speed trap. Only about 4 blocks long on St Charles Rock Road. I got a ticket ther for 4 over in '80.

48 posted on 06/16/2005 10:10:40 AM PDT by SCALEMAN (Super Cards/Rams Fan)
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To: SCALEMAN
If they start trying to issue speeding tickets with cameras, then I will protest.

It's coming to a town near you...I read an article or comment on FR about cameras attached to the bumpers of police cars to catch speeders. The policeman doesn't have to do a thing but drive (or even park)

49 posted on 06/16/2005 10:11:18 AM PDT by scott7278 (Before I give you the benefit of my reply, I'd like to know what we're talking about.)
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To: Charles Henrickson
Another bad speed trap is the town of Frontenac, the stretch of Lindbergh Rd. between Manchester Rd. and Clayton Rd

Yeah.. that one is well known.

Arnold lately has been posting a squad car on Hy 141 on the I-55 overpass shooting radar on I-55 with chase cars on the ramps. The speed limit changes from 65 to 60 right there, but the sign isn't very visible.

50 posted on 06/16/2005 10:13:27 AM PDT by SCALEMAN (Super Cards/Rams Fan)
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To: Centurion2000
I think this one will be dead under innocent until proven guilty.

I hope you're right. We don't want to live in a society in which we have to prove our innocence -- the prosecution should have to prove our guilt.

51 posted on 06/16/2005 10:13:29 AM PDT by scott7278 (Before I give you the benefit of my reply, I'd like to know what we're talking about.)
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To: scott7278
I think this one will be dead under innocent until proven guilty. I hope you're right. We don't want to live in a society in which we have to prove our innocence -- the prosecution should have to prove our guilt

Well I don't like the concept but I still have a gripe about people who run the lights. My wife was injured by a driver who ran a red some years back.

Another gripe is the left turners who run the light. The arrow goes off, but they just stream on through. It seems that they think if the saw the green arrow at some point in their life they are allowed to make the turn.

52 posted on 06/16/2005 10:19:25 AM PDT by SCALEMAN (Super Cards/Rams Fan)
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To: SCALEMAN
Well I don't like the concept but I still have a gripe about people who run the lights. My wife was injured by a driver who ran a red some years back.

There are few things that aggravate me more than someone running a red light, whether it's straight ahead or on a left turn. I lived in a condo next to the South County Mall (now Westfield Shopping Center), and around Thanksgiving until Christmas it was a nightmare.

I remembered that it would sometimes take me thirty minutes to get home sitting on Union trying to cross Lindbergh towards the mall.

As the light would cycle, people coming out of the mall entrance turning left onto Lindbergh would get tired of waiting and so would go on through, four or five cars, on red. Then they would block the intersection for our green cycle, and by the time they cleared, the light would be red again.

I finally called the police and asked for them to come out, but they never did.

53 posted on 06/16/2005 10:27:36 AM PDT by scott7278 (Before I give you the benefit of my reply, I'd like to know what we're talking about.)
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To: SCALEMAN
Arnold lately has been posting a squad car on Hy 141 on the I-55 overpass shooting radar on I-55 with chase cars on the ramps. The speed limit changes from 65 to 60 right there, but the sign isn't very visible.

That squad car is hard to see unless you're looking for it.

54 posted on 06/16/2005 10:29:40 AM PDT by scott7278 (Before I give you the benefit of my reply, I'd like to know what we're talking about.)
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To: scott7278
Just East of Kirkwood/Warson Woods on Manchester.

Officer Ziegler has been handing out tickets in that burg since the '70s.

Be especially careful on Manchester between Mcknight and Brentwood (by the trainwreck).

55 posted on 06/16/2005 12:22:10 PM PDT by demsux
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To: scott7278
I lived in a condo next to the South County Mall (now Westfield Shopping Center), and around Thanksgiving until Christmas it was a nightmare

Small world. I used to have a shop off of Green Park Road. My route home was Union to Lindbergh to I-55 South. During December I would go North on Union to Reavis Barricks to I-55 South to avoid the intersection you are talking about.

Another bitch about that area is the people turning left off of Lindgergh to Circuit City or north bound turning left into the shopping center where the Holiday Inn is. They would tie traffic up to no end.

56 posted on 06/16/2005 12:37:14 PM PDT by SCALEMAN (Super Cards/Rams Fan)
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To: scott7278

Powder..Patch..Ball FIRE!
Well I guess I'll take all of my shopping revenue to other municipalities that don't take my picture when I drive through town...


57 posted on 06/16/2005 12:41:03 PM PDT by BallandPowder
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To: scott7278

I'm surprised the cameras aren't vandalized more often. They certainly should be.


58 posted on 06/16/2005 12:42:22 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: scott7278
Arnold lately has been posting a squad car on Hy 141 on the I-55 overpass shooting radar on I-55 with chase cars on the ramps. The speed limit changes from 65 to 60 right there, but the sign isn't very visible.

That squad car is hard to see unless you're looking for it.

Well I have no respect for the Arnold police or the JeffCo police. Shooting radar onto the interstate is nothing more than revenue enhancement for Arnold. You would think that they have better things to do, such as sit in their squad cars and talk with each other, as you often see them doing.

Years ago my daughter was rear ended at the intersection of 141 and Jeffco Blvd. She got the drivers license number, address, phone, drivers license and insurance info. When I called the ins company they didn't have any record of the driver. I tried to call the phone and it was fake. I looked up the address (in the city) and it was a vacant lot. I finally got a friend in the Highway Patrol to run the vehicle license and drivers license. The vehicle was registered to someone in the state pen -- the drivers license did not exist. I took the info to the Arnold police and they told me they couldn't do anything, even though I had seen the vehicle in Arnold several times. The address of the vehicle owner was in Imperial, but they wouldn't even check it out.

59 posted on 06/16/2005 12:47:31 PM PDT by SCALEMAN (Super Cards/Rams Fan)
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To: BallandPowder

When I was back there visiting my family, we went to Applebee's and in the middle of the lunch hour the restaurant was not filled -- very odd.

I found out that they've enacted that smoking ban for the area restaurants. So they cripple business while filling their own pockets. Sounds like a recipe for disaster!


60 posted on 06/16/2005 1:32:31 PM PDT by scott7278 (Before I give you the benefit of my reply, I'd like to know what we're talking about.)
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