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Inside the Child Support Puzzle
MensNewsDaily.com ^ | June 15, 2005 | Roger F. Gay

Posted on 06/16/2005 3:08:13 AM PDT by RogerFGay

Inside the Child Support Puzzle

June 15, 2005


by Roger F. Gay

I have recently written three articles on "the solution" to the child support problem. (links below) The articles have been posted in various forums where people interested in the problem - including several who have engaged in the child support debate for years - have been able to comment. Reaction to my commentaries on the solution has been interesting and I hope through continued dialogue to promote understanding of the solution.

As prelude to continued discussion, to reduce some of the background confusion in public review, it should be understood that I was never supportive of the movement to transform child support "guidelines" into presumptively correct calculators of awards. I support a return to constitutional rule in family law generally and definitely in the award of child support specifically. Guideline designers will only be challenged to construct and maintain formulae that actually do provide appropriate results if their results are open to challenge. Traditional constitutional due process provides the most efficient and effective approach.

The core problem that has been solved is that of finding the appropriate standard of living increase that can result from the payment of child support. Traditional statutes allowed custodial parents to sue not just for subsistence support of children but for an amount concomitant with both parents' ability to support. At the time federal laws were passed requiring states to use rigid formulae for award determinations, mathematical theory was incomplete. Current guidelines set award levels arbitrarily high.

The standard of living adjustment problem involves a puzzle. The puzzle involves two perspectives that seem to contradict one another. These two perspectives have been at the heart of public debate on child support since the introduction of federal reform.

The purpose of child support: "Child support is for the care and maintenance of children." The only criticism I've received in regard to this statement is that it is not consistent with current state laws. That's true, but since I know that current state laws yield arbitrary results, it would not make sense to try to derive a real solution from them. It is actually quite apparent that it would be silly to try to derive a formula for the proper amount of "child support" with the purpose being anything other than supporting children.

Now let's step onto trickier ground and introduce the puzzle once again. I have also said that the "actual economic role of a child support payment" is to increase the standard of living of the recipient household. This statement is the one that appears to be most at odds with the purpose. The actual difference is so basic that it might slip by unnoticed. My conclusion on the "actual economic role" is an observation, not intent. Even if the payment is only one dollar, it adds to the wealth of the recipient by one dollar and reduces the wealth of the payer by the same amount. It's a fact and an essential understanding in finding the solution to the standard of living adjustment problem. To be clear; it is not my choice. It is not a statement of policy preference. It is just something that is true.

Critics of my observation contend that it looks too much like the purpose of current guidelines; sharing income with the other parent as opposed to restricting child support awards to child support. They miss the point. In formulating policy, the difference between effect and purpose is huge. Confusing the two can be dangerous. In current law, where redistribution of wealth is the purpose, the statute is so vague that it tells us nothing about what an appropriate redistribution might be.

A reasonable person does not see legitimacy in a claim based on the principle that parents are obligated to support their children when the demand made is not actually for that purpose. If a state statute does not clearly state that the purpose of child support is support of children, then the statute is wrong.

I have said that "The basic purpose of child support law, combined with the richness of constitutional limits against arbitrary government interference, provide a sufficient basis from which a valid solution can be derived." This leads to the second fundamental principle of child support decision theory. (The statement of purpose is the first.)

Relationship (equal duty) Principle: Both parents have an equal duty to support their children.

This does not mean that each parent is obligated to provide 50 percent. The third fundamental principle demands that the understanding of children's needs and the parents' obligations are tied directly to the reality of their present circumstances. The solution is related directly to real circumstances - the present circumstances of families (i.e. while the payments are made). This is a fundamental difference between the solution and the ideas upon which current guidelines are built. The solution actually addresses the real situation rather than babbling aimlessly through the designer's fantasy world. Staying in the real world also allows a reality-check when the solution is applied.

Context Principle: All relevant circumstantial information may effect the amount of the award.

It is understood that the actual economic effect of payment is to increase the standard of living of the recipient household - no matter what the size of the payment. The answer is found by determining how great that standard of living increase can be without violating the three principles.

Related Article Links

Child Support Guideline Problem Solved

CS Guideline Solution: What does it solve?

Solving the Child Support Riddle

On Developing Child Support Decision Theory: Principles

Archive

Project for the Improvement of Child Support Litigation Technology

Roger F. Gay


Roger F. Gay is a professional analyst, international correspondent and regular contributor to MensNewsDaily.com, as well as a contributing editor for Fathering Magazine.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Extended News; Government
KEYWORDS: child; childsupport; involuntaryservitude; support; whiningdeadbeat
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1 posted on 06/16/2005 3:08:14 AM PDT by RogerFGay
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To: JimKalb; Free the USA; EdReform; realwoman; Orangedog; Lorianne; Outlaw76; balrog666; DNA Rules; ...

ping


2 posted on 06/16/2005 3:10:09 AM PDT by RogerFGay
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To: RogerFGay
The solution actually addresses the real situation rather than babbling aimlessly through the designer's fantasy world. Staying in the real world also allows a reality-check when the solution is applied.

Cui Bono?

3 posted on 06/16/2005 3:39:15 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: RogerFGay
Hi Roger. Sorry to bother you again, but...

The purpose of child support: "Child support is for the care and maintenance of children."

This is true, if you're talking about support provided by the state when you refer to child support under the Social Security program (TANF). However, "child support" is a term of art refering to payments from absent parents of "dependent children" when it is used in the context of title IV-D legislation. Where your definition applies to parents, a support "award" comes from voluntary payments or alimony. The support liability imposed on the state, through TANF, is recoverable through "orders" (not "awards") for reimbursement or contribution toward this state liability. These two kinds of child support were never merged. The IV-D scheme never replaced common law releif. They are cumulative. This is where your argument falls apart.

It is actually quite apparent that it would be silly to try to derive a formula for the proper amount of "child support" with the purpose being anything other than supporting children.

If you are trying to determine what the cost is to continue to raise children in the way they have been accustomed durring the marriage for the purpose of including these expenses in an alimony "award," you are quite right. Unfortunately, you are confusing a program that seeks to recover money expended by the state to provide "child support" from a father that failed to do so. This is constitutionally limited to the liability imposed on the state by the entitlement programs it created. This limitation is not imposed on an alimony (and maintenance) "award." It is a loss incurred as a result of abandonment, or through a divorce where fault is established. This private liabiility is not determined in a no-fault divorse since no abandonment is established.

In current law, where redistribution of wealth is the purpose, the statute is so vague that it tells us nothing about what an appropriate redistribution might be.

Redistribution of wealth is not the purpose (read: socialism), it is the result of the program's misapplication. The purpose has been clearly stated by the Supreme Court. These are not my words or theories. It is to recover or avoid expenditures under title IV-A of the act (now TANF). For the benefit of others: Sullivan v. Stroop, 496 U.S. 478 (1990). The programs were "meant to work in tandem."

Your work would be valuable in aiding courts in establishing alimony "awards" in cases that established fault for the breakup of the marriage.

4 posted on 06/16/2005 7:00:17 AM PDT by right2parent (www.citizensrule.net)
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To: RogerFGay

There's no problem of child support. The answers are as follows:

1) Show up for the court hearing and plead your case.

2) Abide by the child support order.

Be a man and stand on your own two hind legs. It took two people to conceive a child and each is equally responsible. No one was forced by gunpoint to engage in sexual relations.


5 posted on 06/16/2005 7:35:59 AM PDT by RichardW
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To: right2parent
Unfortunately, you are confusing a program that seeks to recover money expended by the state to provide "child support" from a father that failed to do so.

No longer true thanks to Clinton. In my case, I was voluntarily providing child support (at the level stated by publically available CS calculators).

None of that mattered. The Court mandated that my wages be garnished. My meeting my CS obligations occurred at no cost to the State. But the State imposed itself on the situation.

The State and Federal government have a vested interest in keeping this sham going. When my ex-wife gets more than $1000/month in tax-free money and I get no tax benefit (other than a tax deduction for one child) from providing the same (the CS is in after-tax dollars), this devolves into a purely wealth redistribution scheme.

It sickens me.

6 posted on 06/16/2005 7:47:27 AM PDT by sauropod (De gustibus non est disputandum)
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To: RichardW
Be a man and stand on your own two hind legs. It took two people to conceive a child and each is equally responsible. No one was forced by gunpoint to engage in sexual relations.

Just wait until you see your ex wife using your child support for a car payment on a vehicle that's nice than yours.

The HUGE problem with child support is that there is absolutely ZERO accountability for the $$ you turn over, and yes I make my payment every month.

7 posted on 06/16/2005 7:48:34 AM PDT by Centurion2000 ("THE REDNECK PROBLEM" ..... we prefer the term, "Agro-Americans")
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To: RichardW

I did 1). I am doing 2).

The order was written by a female Special Master (a.k.a. gynocrat).

Who do you think made out on that deal?


8 posted on 06/16/2005 7:48:44 AM PDT by sauropod (De gustibus non est disputandum)
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To: RogerFGay

pong


9 posted on 06/16/2005 7:50:26 AM PDT by Rakkasan1 (The MRS wanted to go to an expensive place to eat so I took her to the gas station.)
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To: RogerFGay
The Backlash:
No.Marriage.Com

If women are our equals (it's the law in the workplace), why don't child custody cases end up with an equal number of men getting child support from wives?

10 posted on 06/16/2005 7:52:08 AM PDT by Bon mots
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To: sauropod
But the State imposed itself on the situation.

That's about what happened to me as well. It's called unlawful intervention. If the state has an interest in your case, like they do when the public purse is threatened, they can intervene under the authority of child support legislation. The substantive law, granting this authority is not the guidelines statute. That's procedural law. They can intervene in Minnesota under MS 256.87. That's our contribution statute in the welfare chapter amending our act relating to Aid to Dependent Children (1937). The subject of the act is obviously dependent children, defined in the act to be children who are dependent on the state for their support.

The expansion of the class to those who were not on public assistance, but still posed a risk is where the money started flowing in, only because their interpretation is overbroad and includes all families. The Spending Clause will not allow the law to go that far.

It sickens you because it's wrong. Ordering you to pay a little less wouldn't make it right.

11 posted on 06/16/2005 9:46:32 AM PDT by right2parent (www.citizensrule.net)
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To: right2parent
Although I originally developed the theory thinking only about non-welfare cases, I've had no difficulty applying it to welfare cases. The difference that allows this real solution to be applied universally lies in understanding the difference between income and "ability to pay."

Sorry, but your theories about law are too narrowly scoped. The things you're talking about would not stop serious people from applying the proper solution.
12 posted on 06/16/2005 9:46:53 AM PDT by RogerFGay
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To: RichardW
RichardW,

Those of us who do understand the subject of discussion always wonder why people who don't like to add goofy comments.
13 posted on 06/16/2005 9:47:59 AM PDT by RogerFGay
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To: RogerFGay
Sorry, but your theories about law are too narrowly scoped.

Those "theories" were drawn by the Supreme Court, with reference to this program.

If you think your solutions can be applied "universally," can you justify applying them to intact families? What's the difference? A compelling state interest to interfere in private domestic relations matters? Where do you draw the line?

14 posted on 06/16/2005 11:57:36 AM PDT by right2parent (www.citizensrule.net)
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To: RogerFGay

"RichardW,

Those of us who do understand the subject of discussion always wonder why people who don't like to add goofy comments."

And why do you think I don't know what I am talking about?


15 posted on 06/16/2005 4:19:34 PM PDT by RichardW
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To: RogerFGay

"RichardW,

Those of us who do understand the subject of discussion always wonder why people who don't like to add goofy comments."

Any why do you believe I don't know what I am talking about?


16 posted on 06/16/2005 4:20:45 PM PDT by RichardW
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To: RichardW
And why do you think I don't know what I am talking about?

You certainly do not understand the topic of discussion. Telling people to shut up and do what they're told does not suggest that you understand any of this.
17 posted on 06/17/2005 4:21:01 AM PDT by RogerFGay
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To: right2parent
Your theory, as I've understood its application through your discussion, suggests that doing the right thing is legally impossible. Now, it looks like you're suggesting that the Supreme Court ordered everyone to decide child support arbitrarily. I really don't think you can logically draw conclusions from the cases you site that would bar courts from awarding legitimate amounts on the basis of valid reasoning.

Where do I draw the line? Awarding child support has always been considered constitutional, since our nation's beginning. It was until recently it was legally classified as a private issue, which required courts to limit child support awards to the purpose of supporting children while balancing the rights, circumstances, and obligations of everyone involved.

My view is that it was wrong to deviate from those established standards. (And ... as a matter of fact ... we lived with those standards in welfare law as well ... it just takes a little more than you've given to the subject to understand that). Child support is a private issue, in my view, other than the decisions made by government to give public money to support children. The mere fact that government has made the decision to do so, is in my opinion, no excuse at all for tranforming family law into the public sphere (i.e. like taxes and welfare entitlements ... politically controlled)
18 posted on 06/17/2005 4:30:05 AM PDT by RogerFGay
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To: right2parent
We're really covering the same ground over and over again. The basis of your disagreement seems strongly related to your unwillingness to admit that child support is now "social policy" and the effect this transition has had.

You seem terribly confused about what being on the side of constitutional rights means, and that's related to your lack of acceptance of the fact those rights disappeared with child support was reclassified.
19 posted on 06/17/2005 4:37:38 AM PDT by RogerFGay
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To: RogerFGay
You seem terribly confused about what being on the side of constitutional rights means, and that's related to your lack of acceptance of the fact those rights disappeared with child support was reclassified.

You hang your whole argument on the supposed fact that child support was reclassified, and with that, due process became unnecessary or "disappeared." That is truly ridiculous.

Now, it looks like you're suggesting that the Supreme Court ordered everyone to decide child support arbitrarily.

Your argument suggests the legal liabiliy for the obligation need not have any relationship to the purpose of the program. I am stating quite blundtly that it must. The arbitrary nature of the application of guidelines is presicely due to a failure to recognize the basis for a liability under the program. You fail to acknowledge the purpose is what the law says it is. Instead you substitute the supposed purpose of income redistribution for the feed good sake of the children. Claiming child support is now "social policy" is meaningless.

20 posted on 06/17/2005 7:20:25 AM PDT by right2parent (www.citizensrule.net)
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