China trying to turn Australia into 'colony': defector [China imperialism alert!]

China is not a communist country anymore.

Actually, they're now something even more dangerous: A fascist super-state.

yeah i noticed lol
could not take a reasoned argument perhaps?

"New Zealand is right next door..."

Is this the current domino effect ~ are the Chi-Coms gonna pounce on the poor Kiwis?? ;)

"Those are all minor disputes.

Contrast all those things that you listed with the British empire in China during the 1800s and early 1900s, with the Japanese empire in China during the 1900s, with the expansion of Russia during the 1700s on, etc...Compared to other cultures, China has historically been the least expansionist."

You've got to be kidding me. China, like any other country that has the power to do so including the US, wants as much hegemony as possible. China was non-expansionist back then because it was subordinate to other countries. Do you think that China's some sort of ethical, ideological country because it officially espouses some stupid ideology that uses imperialist as a derogatory term or says that it's against exploitation of the worker?

Ideology for them is a tool of oppression; it comes second to money and power. The same was true with the USSR. Do you think they discussed Marx in the Kremlin when forging alliances with leaders like Hafez Al-Asad, who killed his country's communists?

"Their help to the N. Koreans in the 50's was not minor"

Exactly. How quickly we forget that they directly participated in combat against the United States.

" China historically has not been an imperialistic expansionist power compared to most other cultures."

Even if you were right, which you aren't (Korea, Cambodia, Taiwan, Tibet); what does it prove? In the 20s and 30s, America was the most isolationist of Western countries. In the 1950s, America's sphere of influence stretched from Japan to Turkey.

Do you think that China's some sort of ethical, ideological country because it officially espouses some stupid ideology that uses imperialist as a derogatory term or says that it's against exploitation of the worker?

No, I was just saying that China is not a communist country anymore. It also has not been imperialist, historically, compared to its neighbors.

...and they participated in combat against America in a major way. Somewhere between 15,000 and 20,000 American deaths I believe after they crossed the Yalu into N. Korea and Truman turned MacAuthur down on using nukes to stop them cold there and to destroy the Communist Chinese military in general.

I can't. The term National Socialism applies strictly to the racist variant of Fascism created by Hitler.

The Chi-Coms aren't commies? ~ unlock your lips from the opium pipe and open your eyes. *sigh*

No, they are not.

Despite what others may want to believe, and may project...when the Communist Chinese call themselves communist, when they to this day operate their Politburo and party machine to control all elections and virtually every aspect of Chinese society...as I say, irrspective of what others may want to believe...I still say they are communists and have the same goals and aspirations that coomunists have always had.

N. Korea, Vietnam, Tibet, their threatening of the ROC and Los Angeles, their expansion into other areas of Asia, into the Spratley's and elsewhere in the China Seas, their growing influence in South and Central America and elsewhere...all attest to this.

As I say, not to mention their abject control of Chinese society in general.

They have simply shifted their economic model from the failed Marxists and Maoist philosophies to a market economy...but not a free market. The only thing fascist about them IMHO is their market model at this point...the rest is pure communism to this day.

When was their last election?

Look at what Japan did in the 1900s. Japan had an empire that stretched across the Pacific. If anyone has ever tried to take over Australia it was Japan!

At the same time, do I think the Chinese government is to be trusted? No.

I've been through this with some here as well.

Unless one sees the Chairman presiding over labor camps then China cannot be communist. The Poliboro learned from the old Soviet model that a closed economic system does not work. China does not have the iron ore, oil or agricultural infrastructure to expand, so she opened her doors in order to feed that need.

Now, since there is a stock exchange in Shanghai and shopping malls in Beijing, most label the country as nationalist, socialist or fascist.

-Nationalists are not necessarily up on imperialism (see Taiwan, hands in the Philippines, Haiti, Zimbabwe, Cuba, Venezuela, the Panama Canal through Hutchinson Whampoa owned by Li Kashing), but more on preserving soveriegnty.
-Socialists (ala Brazil, Spain) are not necessarily bent on capping free speech or access to information (see prisons filled with political prisoners and the shuttering of internet cafes), but more on creating a welfare state.
-Fascists are not concerned with economic expansion or the individual reaping that reward (see A shares on Hong Kong Stock Exchange), but with the State holding all of the power.

None of these apply to China. Agreed that the traditional definition of Communist does not apply as well. But the Communist does exist in another form.

He is now holding equity and bonds and shaking hands with Westeners while raiding private homes in search of political dissidents. He is building sneaker factories over execution pits. He is issuing press releases on economic growth while closing down newspapers.

The modern Communist has evolved and he has fooled most of the world into thinking he has died.

Actually they have local elections. One party only though LOL.

Nuff said. :)

As I have said before...they call themselves coommunists, they operate their Politburo to control all politics and elections and most parts of the Chinese society, they exhibit the expansionist goals of all communists.

...and despite what you may say Tibet, N. Korea, Vietnam, India, expansion into the choke points o the S. China and China seas, their threatening of the ROC and even Los Angeles, their rapidly growing influence in Central and South America, their recent veiled threats to Japan and Australia...all attest to classic communist expansionism goals and traits.

If it quacks like a duck, walks ike a duck, defecates like a duck, eats like a duck, and smells like a duck...chances are it is still a duck IMHO...in spite of the fact that they have adapted their failed Maoist economic model to a command market model.

"Look at what Japan did in the 1900s. Japan had an empire that stretched across the Pacific. If anyone has ever tried to take over Australia it was Japan!

At the same time, do I think the Chinese government is to be trusted? No."

OK, great. Once upon a time, Germany was just a loose confederation of little states. Once upon a time, America was a British colony. What the f*** is your point?

This is like talking to a wall.

No. If you are Chinese you can own land in China. You can own a business in China. China has a stock market that people can invest in.

This is a test of your knowledge. What is the Chinese Constitution really saying here?

Chinese Constitutional Law

AMENDMENTS TO THE
CONSTITUTION OF THE
PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA

(Adopted at the FithSession of the Fith National
People's Congress and Promulgated for
Implementation by the Proclamation of the NPC on
April 12, 1988)

1 Article 11 of the Constitution shall include a new paragraph, which reads: "The state permits the private sector of the economy to exist and develop within the limits prescribed by law. The private sector of the economy a complement to the socialist public economy. The state protects the lawful rights and interests of the private sector the economy, and exercises guidance, supervision and control over the private sector of the economy."

2 The fourth paragraph of Article 10 of the Constitution which provides that "No organization or individual may appropriate, buy, sell or lease land or otherwise engage the transfer of land by unlawful means", shall be amended to: "No organization or individual may appropriate, buy, sell or unlawfully transfer land in other ways. The right to the use of land may be transferred in accordance with law."

AMENDMENTS TO THE
CONSTITUTION OF THE
PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA

(Adopted at the First Session of the Eighth
National People's Congress and Promulgated for Implementation by the
Proclamation of the NPC on March 29, 1993)

3 The final two sentences of the seventh paragraph of the Preamble to the Constitution ("The basic task of the nation in the years to come is to concentrate its efforts on socialist modernization. Under the leadership of the Communist Party of China and the guidance of Marxism Leninism and Mao Zedong Thought, the Chinese people of all ethnic groups will continue to adhere to the people's democratic dictatorship and the socialist road, steadily improve socialist institutions, develop socialist democracy, improve the socialist legal system, and work hard and self-reliantly to modernize the country's industry, agriculture, national defense and science and technology step by step to turn China into a socialist country with a high level of culture and democracy.") are amended to "Our country is in the primary stage of socialism. The basic task before the nation is the concentration of efforts on socialist modernization construction in accordance with the theory of building socialism with Chinese characteristics. Under the leadership of the Communist Party of China and the guidance of Marxism-Leninism and Mao Zedong Thought, the Chinese people of all ethnic groups will continue to adhere to the people's democratic dictatorship and the socialist road and to uphold reform and opening to the outside world, steadily improve socialist institutions, develop socialist democracy, improve the socialist legal system, and work hard and self-reliantly to modernize the country's industry, agriculture, national defense and science and technology step by step to build China into a strong and prosperous, culturally advanced, democratic socialist nation."

4 The following sentence is added to the end of the tenth paragraph of the Preamble to the Constitution: "Multi-party cooperation and the political consultation system under the leadership of the Communist Party of China shall continue and develop for a long time to come."

5 Article 7 of the Constitution ("The state economy is the sector of socialist economy under ownership by the whole people; it is the leading force in the national economy. The state ensures the consolidation and growth of the state economy.") is amended to "The state-owned economy, i.e. the socialist economy with ownership by the people as a whole, is the leading force in the national economy. The state will ensure the consolidation and development of the state-owned economy."

6 The first paragraph of Article 8 of the Constitution ("Rural people's communes, agricultural producers' cooperatives and other forms of cooperative economy, such as producers', supply and marketing, credit and consumers' cooperatives, belong to the sector of socialist economy under collective ownership by the working

people. Working people who are members of rural economic collectives have the right, within the limits prescribed by law, to farm plots of cropland and hilly land allotted for their private use, engage in household sideline production and raise privately owned livestock.") is amended to "The rural contracted responsibility system based mainly on the household linking remuneration to output and cooperative economic forms producers', supply and marketing, credit and consumers' cooperatives, are part of the socialist economy collectively owned by the working people. Working people who are members of rural economic collectives have the right, within the limits prescribed by law, to farm plots of cropland and hilly land allotted for their private use, engage in household sideline production and raise privately owned livestock."

7 Article 15 of the Constitution ("The state practices planned economy on the basis of socialist public ownership. It ensures the proportionate and coordinated growth of the national economy through overall balancing by economic planning and the supplementary role of regulation by the market." "Disturbance of the socioeconomic order or disruption of the state economic plan by any organization or individual is prohibited.") is amended to "The state practices socialist market economy." "The state shall enhance economic legislation and improve macro-control of the economy." "The state shall, in accordance with the law, prohibit disturbance of the socioeconomic order by any organization or individual."/p>

8 Article 16 of the Constitution ("State enterprises have decision-aking power with regard to operation and management within the limits prescribed by law, on condition that they submit to unified leadership by the state and fulfill all their obligations under the state plan." "State enterprises practice democratic management through congresses of workers and staff and in other ways in accordance with the law.") is amended to "Stat- owned enterprises have decision-making power with regard to operations within the limits prescribed by law." "State-owned enterprises practice democratic management through congresses of workers and staff and in other ways in accordance with the law."

9 Article 17 of the Constitution ("Collective economic organizations have decision-making power in conducting independent economic activities, on condition that they accept the guidance of the state plan and abide by the relevant laws." "Collective economic organizations practice democratic management in accordance with the law. The entire body of their workers elects or removes their managerial personnel and decides on major issues concerning operation and management.") is amended "Collective economic organizations have decision-making power in conducting independent economic activities, on condition that they abide by the relevant laws." "Collective economic organizations practice democratic management, elect and remove their managerial personnel in accordance with the law, and decide major issues concerning operation and management.

10 The third paragraph of Article 42 of the Constitution ("Work is a matter of honour for every citizen who is able to work. All working people in state enterprises and in urban and rural economic collectives should approach their work as the masters of the country that they are. The state promotes socialist labour emulation, and commends and rewards model and advanced workers. The state encourages citizens to take part in voluntary labour.") is amended to "Work is a matter of honour for every citizen who is able to work. All working people in state-owned enterprises and in urban and rural economic collectives should approach their work as the masters of the country that they are. The state promotes socialist labour emulation, and commends and rewards model and advanced workers. The state encourages citizens to take part in voluntary labour."

11 Article 98 of the Constitution ("The term of office of the people's congresses of provinces, municipalities directly under the Central Government and cities divided into districts is five years. The term of office of the people's congresses of counties, cities not divided into districts, municipal districts, townships, ethnic townships,and towns is three years.") is amended to "The term of office of the people's congresses of provinces, municipalities directly under the Central Government, counties, cities and districts under the jurisdiction of the municipal government is five years. The term of office of the people's congresses of townships, ethnic townships and towns is three years."

AMENDMENTS TO THE
CONSTITUTION OF THE
PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA

(Adopted at the Second Session of the Ninth National People's Congress and
Promulgated for Implementation by the Proclamation of the
NPC on March 15, 1999)

12 The seventh paragraph of the Preamble to the Constitution ("Both the victory in China's New‑Democratic Revolution and the successes in its socialist cause have been achieved by the Chinese people of all ethnic groups, under the leadership of the Communist Party of China and the guidance of Marxism-Leninism and Mao Zedong Thought, by upholding truth, correcting errors and surmounting numerous difficulties and hardships. Our country is in the primary stage of socialism. The basic task before the nation is the concentration of efforts on socialist modernization construction in accordance with the theory of building socialism with Chinese characteristics. Under the leadership of the Communist Party of China and the guidance of Marxism-Leninism and Mao Zedong Thought, the Chinese people of all ethnic groups will continue to adhere to the people's democratic dictatorship and the socialist road and to uphold reform and opening to the outside world, steadily improve socialist institutions, develop socialist democracy, improve the socialist legal system, and work hard and self-reliantly to modernize the country's industry, agriculture, national defense and science and technology step by step to build China into a strong and prosperous, culturally advanced, democratic socialist nation.") is amended to "The victory in China's New Democratic Revolution and the successes in its socialist cause have been achieved by the Chinese people of all ethnicgroups, under the leadership of the Communist Party of China and the guidance of Marxism-Leninism and Mao Zedong Thought, by upholding truth, correcting errors and surmounting numerous difficulties and hardships. Our country will be in the primary stage of socialism for a long period of time. The basic task before the nation is the concentration of efforts on socialist modernization construction along the road of building socialism with Chinese characteristics. Under the leadership of the Communist Party of China and the guidance of Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought and Deng Xiaoping Theory, the Chinese people of all ethnic groups will continue to adhere to the people's democratic dictatorship and the socialist road, and to uphold reform and opening to the outside world, steadily improve socialist institutions, develop a socialist market economy, promote socialist democracy, improve the socialist legal system, and work hard and self reliantly to modernize the country's industry, agriculture, national defense and science and technology step by step to build China into a strong and prosperous, culturally advanced, democratic socialist nation."

13 The following is added to Article 5 of the Constitution as the first paragraph: "The People's Republic of China exercises the rule of law, building a socialist country governed according to law."

14 Article 6 of the Constitution ("The basis of the socialist economic system of the People's Republic of China is socialist public ownership of the means of production, namely, ownership by the whole people and collective ownership by the working people." "The system of socialist public ownership supersedes the system of exploitation of man by man it applies the principle of 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his work.') is amended to "The basis of the socialist economic system of the People's Republic of China is socialist public ownership of the means of production, namely, ownership by the whole people and collective ownership by the working people. The system of socialist public ownership supersedes the system of exploitation of man by man; it applies the principle of 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his work .... .. In the primary stage of socialism, the state upholds the basic economic system with the dominance of the public ownership and the simultaneous development of an economy of diverse forms of ownership, and upholds the distribution system with the dominance of distribution according to work and the coexistence of diverse modes of distribution."

15 The first paragraph of Article 8 of the Constitution ("The rural contracted responsibility system based mainly on the household linking remuneration to output and cooperative economic forms ‑ producers', supply and marketing, credit and consumers' cooperatives ‑ are part of the socialist economy collectively owned by the working people. Working people who are members of rural economic collectives have the right, within the limits prescribed by law, to farm plots of cropland and hilly land allotted for their private use, engage in household sideline production and raise privately owned livestock.") is amended to "The rural collective economic organizations follow the two-tier operation system with household contract management as the basis and the combination of unified and separate management. Rural cooperative economic forms; producers', supply and marketing, credit and consumers' cooperatives; are part of the socialist economy collectively owned by the working people. Working people who are members of rural economic collectives have the right, within the limits prescribed by law, to farm plots of cropland and hilly land allotted for their private use, engage in household sideline production and raise privately owned livestock."

16 Article 11 of the Constitution ('The individual economy of urban and rural working people, operating within the limits prescribed by law, is a complement to the socialist public economy. The state protects the lawful rights and interests of the individual economy." "The state guides, assists and supervises the individual economy by administrative control." "The state permits the private sector of the economy to exist and develop within the limits prescribed by law. The private sector of the economy is a complement to the socialist public economy. The state protects the lawful rights and interests of the private sector of the economy, and exercises guidance, supervision an, control over the private sector of the economy.")0 amended to "The non-public sector of the economy comprising self-employed and private businesses Within the domain stipulated by law is an important component of the country's socialist market economy ... The state protects the legitimate rights and interests of the self-employed and private businesses." "The state exercises guidance, supervision and management over the self-employed and private businesses.";

17 Article 28 of the Constitution ("The state maintains public order and suppresses treasonable and other counterrevolutionary activities it penalizes criminal activities that endanger public security and disrupt the socialist economy as well as other criminal activities; and it punishes and reforms criminals.") is amended to "The state maintains public order and suppresses treasonable and other criminal activities jeopardizing state security; it penalizes criminal activities that endanger public security and disrupt the socialist economy, as well as other criminal activities; and it punishes and reforms criminals."

Yes...they defintiely have evolved. But do not kid yourself into thinking that there is not a huge population of jailed/gulaged/laborized political prisoners in China...there are.

The Chinese Communists, IMHO, are developing into the greatest threat to western, morally based, liberty the world has ever known...and quickly.