India to deport US missionaries

BBC ^ | 6/13/05 | Zubair Ahmed

[kiriath_jearim]

Monday, 13 June, 2005, 14:58 GMT 15:58 UK

India to deport US missionaries

By Zubair Ahmed BBC News, Mumbai

Four American missionaries have been asked to leave India for what police say is a violation of visa regulations.

The missionaries were attacked by a Hindu mob in India's western city Mumbai (Bombay) on Saturday evening during a Bible reading session.

Police said three of them were treated for bruises and cuts in a hospital.

One of the assailants was released on bail after allegedly abducting one of the missionaries who are accused of trying to convert local Hindus.

'Stern action'

Police told the BBC that the men entered India on tourist visas, but were found preaching religion.

They say two of them have already left Mumbai, and the other two are waiting to catch the next available flight.

Police say a group of local Hindus beat up the missionaries, because they angered over their attempts to convert local Hindus.

But the missionaries told the police they were only holding a Bible reading session.

Mumbai Christians have condemned the attack, and urged the police to take stern action against those involved in the attack.

Dolphy D'Souza of the Bombay Catholics Sabha has accused the police of being lenient towards those involved in the attack.

But police say they have registered a case of abduction against one of the assailants who was produced in court and released on bail after the abducted missionary reappeared on Sunday morning.

Christians are often accused of forcibly converting the poor in India by bribing them with money and jobs.

But this is denied by the Christian community, which accounts for about two percent of India's one billion population.

Six years ago, a Hindu mob burnt alive an Australian missionary and his two young sons in the eastern state of Orissa.

The man charged with their murder was sentenced to death, but last month his sentence was commuted to life imprisonment.

[Brilliant]

"were found preaching religion..."

India may be a democracy, but it's got a ways to go before it's truly free.

It's interesting though that the lefties regard the US as obsessed with religion. The comparison is pretty stark.

[econ_grad]

I didn't know you couldn't preach your religion on a tourist visa. Maybe they need a "preaching" visa and then register with the govt before they can speak of their faith. It would be interesting if the Hindu population in the US speaks up against it.

[Wiz]

India news ping

[Wiz]

Culture is sometimes an obstacle of democracy. This intolerance is no different from Islamists. What would have Ghandi said if he saw this incident, Indians?

[Saberwielder]

FYI, if an Indian person were to come over here on a business visa and open up a temple, he'll likely be deported. There is a separate visa category for that and you'll have to be vetted and provide proof of your religious qualifications etc. I know many good folks who go to spread the Word India, Sri Lanka and other countries in the region with proper visas and none of them have been harassed. The attacks on the good folks in this case is condemnable.

Rules are rules. We should remember that just as we ask foreigners to follow our rules when here, other countries can ask our visitors over there to do the same.

[Saberwielder]

The US has a separate visa for foreign religious persons to come here and be administrators or temples/mosques etc.

[econ_grad]

And if a person on tourist visa engages in that, do we deport them? Of course there is a religious visa. How else can they get overnight visas?

[Saberwielder]

Yes. Today even if a foreigner has the slightest of violations, even 1 day overstay - he/she gets deported and will likely NEVER get a visa again.

[econ_grad]

That is not what I said. I am sure if you go to your nearest Hindu temple, I will find some priest or worker there who is on a tourist visa. In fact, I will ask around.

[Gengis Khan]

I strongly condemn this kind of behaviour of Hindus (my co-religionists) and there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to assault ordinary people on whatever grounds, religious or otherwise. And I would condemn this kind of behaviour even when its meted out to Muslims (as I have done before on this forum) irrespective of my differences with Christianity or Islam (or Christians and Muslims).

And while I strongly condemn these acts I would also contend that this has nothing to do with India's culture or democracy. Religious whackos are to be found in every religion and one cannot (and should) not condemn a whole country or a religion for the actions of a handful.

Christianity I believe is a great religion just as much as Hinduism, Buddism or Judaism and every religion has the freedom to observe their faith in India as long as they adhere to the laws of the land.

[Arjun]

While I dont like it when people attack each other in this case I will reserve judgement until we know all the facts.
News items like these give people the wrong idea.
Its not as if there are no churches/missionaries in mumbai.
Au contraire. Find me an Indian city that doesnt have missionaries... and how many of those christians have been pressured to convert?? NONE.

And not all of these missionaries are white as snow either. They have attempted to convert me and several people I know when I lived there and thru very aggressive tactics... . I am talking money and sex. The line used was "christian girls are smarter (wink, wink) " Yes.. believe it.

At one time I was also refused admission in a famous mumbai school only because I wasnt Catholic... though they dont advertise that they discriminate.
There needs to be a full investigation of proselytising practices in India.

[ekidsohbelaas]

Off topic, but:

The Govt. of India is concerned why there has been a surge in interest (by way of traffic of preachers and funds) from American Christian organisations (specially Southern Baptists) in India lately. Very suspicious.

India has a lot of Christians, and a Christian tradition that predates American Christian tradition by more than a millennium.

Another point to note is that:

Why American preachers?

1. They don't know the local language....
2. Even if the people in the locality understood English, they would *not* understand a word of English in the American accent.

There is a lot more to this than meets the eye.

I know of your stand that India is an artificial construct etc., but given the fissiparous tendencies in this 'artificial construct called India', *you* will understand why the GoI would be so sensetive to non-Indian funds to religious groups (Muslim or Christian). (Note again, nothing to do with the beating-up incident. it goes without saying that it was deploreable).

Ps: You said you have lived in India before. May I ask which years and in what capacities?
Thanks.

[Arjun]

Is the US truely free?

[ekidsohbelaas]

At one time I was also refused admission in a famous mumbai school only because I wasn't Catholic

Which one? I was in one of the elite Jesuit school, and they were *always* above the board. They did have a policy of preferably admitting Catholic students, but not at the cost of a better student of any other faith. The class composition (faith wise, and this was *never* an issue) reflected loosely India's population break up, except that there were a disproportionate no. of Parsees. (But then again, Bombay is the Bawa hub of the world! :) )

[econ_grad]

A lot of missionaries I know are trained in the local languages, although I cannot speak for the ones that are involved here. BTW, why would you suspect the Southern Baptists for any wrongdoing in India? I am one although a non-practicing one. I am curious to know your reason, and I may be able to clear up your confusion.

Communal forces are everywhere. The problem with India is that you have politicians who are more than willing to incubate it for their personal privileges.

[econ_grad]

Not as free as I would like, but basic fundamental freedoms are abundant. Most importantly, people have a distaste for basic injustice and will come to help you out if you went through crap. After 9/11, a Sikh guy was killed by someone in AZ because he was confused for a Muslim. BTW, even if he was a Mislim it would still be wrong. The guy was arrested, charged with murder, and got the death penalty or life in prison. People all over AZ raised a few million dollars to compensate the family whose only source of livelihood was the guy's income. If something truly unjust ever happens to you, you would wish you are in the US because people do help you out.

[ekidsohbelaas]

Communal forces are everywhere. The problem with India is that you have politicians who are more than willing to incubate it for their personal privileges.

Yes, we have the communal forces, and the reverse-communal forces. Everyone is in it for the money. I guess the cynicism wrt Indian politics is not new to you.

A lot of missionaries I know are trained in the local languages, although I cannot speak for the ones that are involved here. BTW, why would you suspect the Southern Baptists for any wrongdoing in India? I am one although a non-practicing one. I am curious to know your reason, and I may be able to clear up your confusion. Are Southern Baptists the same as 'Evangelicals' and 'Born Again' Christians?
I will get back to you on this with facts (as opposed to shooting my mouth off). From personal experience, I lived visited the NE recently, and there have been reports (AFAIK) of Southern Baptist missionaries operating there. Now as you may know, there are several insurgencies happening in that region, and missionaries specifically going to and funding construction of churches in that region (even though it is already predominantly Christian after Patrick Henry came in late 1800) is very suspicious.

Other than that, I have seen websites (AFAIK they were Southern Baptist) extolling all that India has the biggest no. of easy to convert heathens (I guess you also know how the majority of (Hindu) Indians look at spirituality... they will pray without any second thoughts at Churches/Dargahs etc.. it is considered normal). And there were specific instructions that "start with the poor tribals first"

I will have to back these claims with links, give me some time for that. ps: Though I should be using google for this, how is the Southern baptist denomination different from the normal Roman Catholic and Anglican Protestant?

[ekidsohbelaas]

normal= i.e. as is usual in India

And wondering why (there have been reports of) only Southern Baptists and not other denominations coming to India. The current incident dealt with preachers from North Carolina. Would they be Southern Baptists?

[econ_grad]

You can be "Born Again" anything, even Buddhist. That just means you found God in mid-life. But, yes the Southern Baptists would be an Evangelical church.

I can put your fear to rest. I can guarantee you that the Southern Baptist church isn't funding any insurgency anywhere. I have spent some time in the Brahmaputra valley, although I think you are talking about Nagaland and Mizoram. I have never been there, but I can assure you that they are not part of any insurgency there. If you have evidence of such things, hang them up high and noone would raise any objection. Of course, they are evangelicals and they believe in spreading the Word to as many non-Christians as possible. BTW, all non-Christians are heathens/pagans. A lot of them are also going to Israel because that is where the second coming is supposed to take place. I am not a good believer in these things, but some people feel very strongly about it.

I think the best bet for India right now is to ban these foreign missionaries completely for their own safety. They have to deal with their internal communal problems first. At the end of the day, everyone has to pick his/her own path. In a free society, people are free to choose to believe whatever religion one chooses, or chooses not to believe at all. Your choice of religion is no different from your choice of TV, radio, or washing machine. Whatever gives you the most peace of mind at cost you can afford (rites, rituals, fastings, prayers, etc), you will follow that. As such, all religions are competing in the marketplace and a free society should provide for access to all religions for the sake of its own people. When Hindus attack Christians in Bombay, they don't realize that they put Hindus in the rest of the world on the defensive for no good reason whatsoever. Also, it shows their insecurity and ultimately motivates these Evangelical groups. They believe strongly in good and evil and when they hear these stories it enforces their beliefs that there is evil in this world trying to stop the spread of the Bible.