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To: BlackElk
The New Right aka the Conservative Movement of the 1960s and 1970s IS the conservative movement and consists of the actual conservatives.

You shame Goldwater and Reagan by attempting to replace them with the radical neocon invasion of the party.

Coincidentally, most of the actual surviving neocons are also Jewish: Norman Podhoretz, Midge Decter, Irving Kristol, Gertrude Himmelfarb, etc.,

I believe that to be a disingenuous statement Mr. Elk.

You haven't even scratched the surface in terms of naming neoconservatives. Oddly, and amusingly, enough George Bush is one of the rare ELECTED ones!

You named SOME of the early ones and I challenge you to name ANY early one that was not a Communist or a red diaper baby!

Here's what I offered to another FR brother when he inquired about this late 20th century political anomaly:
"It was conceived during/at the waning of the Viet Nam War. Scoop Jackson (the Senator from Boeing) Democrats sensed that the Dim Party was losing its appetite for a strong defense and a belligerent foreign policy and migrated to Reagan's strong anticommunist stand. So far so good ... but that's nowhere near the end of the story."

Closed quote. Most of these Democrat "born again" Republicans were Jewish, You say coincidence? I ask you "at this time of neocon conception did the U.S. appear in imminent danger"?

No, we were, even then, the most powerful nation on earth. Who then was placed in jeopardy by a perceived contraction of American belligerence?

BTW, does the name Leo Strauss ring any kind of (dangerously radical) bell with you?

May I respectfully suggest you get your allegiances in order?

80 posted on 06/18/2005 12:56:21 PM PDT by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: iconoclast; ninenot; sittnick
You are invited to re-read #79 which is as much of a response to the delusions of #80 as you deserve. But, just to show that I am a generous kind of guy, the following:

1. Goldwater made me a Republican in 1964 when I was a teenager in a Democrat labor union family. Later, I thought far less of him as he became a dog in the manger over Reagan who was, by far, Barry Goldwater's superior in every way. By 1976, I would not have voted for him for dogcatcher because he had firmly established himself, on social issues, as an enemy of the US, an enemy of the GOP and an enemy of Western Civilization. See below for why Goldwater is NEVER to be confused with Reagan.

2. Goldwater suffered theinjustice of LBJ's little girl with the daisy nuclear bomb commercial in 1964. By 1976, he was cravenly campaigning for spineless "moderate" Gerald Ford and doing a voiceover asking California primary voters if they REALLY wanted Reagan's finger on the nuclear button.

3. In 1968, every 1964 Goldwater delegate who had become a 1968 delegate, was marched through Goldwater's hotel suite to be instructed by Goldwater to vote for Nixon and against Reagan.

4. Why would Goldwater stab Reagan like that????? Perhaps because first wife Peggy Goldwater served on the national board of directors of PLANNED PARENTHOOD from about 1940 until her death in about 1975. Barry was always a pro-abort and was understandably cautious in stirring up conservative opposition to himself.

5. Goldwater bragged about bringing his daughter to an abortion mill to abort his grandchild and defiantly said (after he was out of office permanently) that it was nobody's business but his that of his family. Which begs the question of how we would have found out other than by his shooting off his mouth about being an accomoplice in the killing of his grandchild.

6. In a similar vein, he bragged that his grandson's homosexuality was nobody's business. Again, his grandson is not in my socuial circle. How would I learn without Barry wanting to p.o. social conservatives. Well, Barry, mission accomplished.

7. Spineless foreign policy cowards, anti-war quislings, internationalist looney toons, isolationist John Francois Kerry, George McGovern, paleofrauds who would substitute drunken poetry whining for manhood in cultural matters, and similar flora and fauna have NO PLACE IN THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT and NEVER did and NEVER will.

8. Notice particularly that "neo-conservatives" are NOT as defined by the Nation Magazine or by the quislings at Chronicles and the Rockford Institute but are that dwindling and dying group of formerly left, mostly NYC, 1930s intellectuals who abandoned the Demonratic Party when it became a footstool for communism under McGovern and his allies.

9. What you and the other paleoyakfesters here regard as "neoconservatives" ARE THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT that nominated and elected Ronald Reagan, having made the mistake of nominating Goldwater without taking the emeasure of the man on moral questions. We invaded nothing. There was little to invade. Nixon imposed wage and price controls, kissed Chairman Mao's bootie on demand, appointed Herod Blackmun to the SCOTUS, etc., etc., etc.

10. What you and the Nation magazine call "neoconservatives" are the Republicans who believe in a kickass foreign and military policy with no restraints by treaty or otherwise, believe in free enterprise and sharp tax reductions for EVERYONE, recognize that no legitimacy attaches to anything posing as marriage or marriage-like other than one man + one woman, believe passionately in and practice the right to keep and bear arms, etc. I know the Rockford Institute crowd personally. There is NO LEADERSHIP there for a political movement. Tom Fleming brags that he does not vote, for one egregious example.

11. Scoop Jackson was a great but flawed man. He was certainly a socialist and therefore wrong on economics. He uttered the immortal words: "I take second place to no man in calling myself a liberal but that does not mean that I have to be a damn fool." That was in response to McGovernite foreign policy dishonesty and delusion now embraced by all 27 "paleocons" in America. He may well have been wrong on social issues. On those, Rep. Ron Paul has always been right but he is soooooooo wrong on foreign policy and defense and military that Houston owes a lot more to America. Likewise, neo"paleo" Rep. Walter Jones (paleodope-North Carolina), Jr., who went to a recent military funeral, heard the soldier's mother read a letter from her dead son and was soooooooooo overcome with grief and the authenticity of it all (he CRIED for 72 hours in response without known psychiatric intervention), that he wants to tell the Islamofascisti when we commit to withdraw so that they can win. Puhleeze, Mr. Jones, will your Congressional resignation be submitted immediately to the Speaker? If not, why not??????? You are obviously unfit for office.

12. You are astoundingly thick in your imagination of reality. Of course, the actual neocons were leftwingers. They were NOT communists for the most part, if ever. Midge Decter wrote a book-length treatment called "Liberal Parents/Radical Children" or something similar It details the extraordinary efforts necessary to keep her own kids on the straight and narrow and away from the influences ranging from parents of New Leftists to the flaming fudgepackers of Fire Island.

SUMMARY: Like most paleos, you have not a clue as to the history of conservatism. It is a movement dependent on ex-communists like the late Frank and Elsie Meyer, whose son Eugene runs the Federalist Society, dependent upon former Democrats like Jean Kirkpatrick, dependent on all of the original editors of National Review (other than Bill Buckley) a group that had all evacuated the left in the late 1940s, dependent upon people who could perceive the difference between social eccentrics, academic semi-nincompoops, pseudointellectual ne'er do wells, on the one hand and, on the other, actual conservatives, people who did not have to be left by the wayside as poster children for exotic behavior and atomistic self-absorption. If you want a movement that reflects your whims, it is NOT the conservative movement, never was and never will be. To date, "paleos" have accomplished NADA politically and have exhibited no likelihood that they will soon surpass other eccentrics like vegetarians, flat-earthers or the rest of the tin foil hat crowd.

My "allegiances" are quite in order and I have NO ALLEGIANCE to you or any other paleo.

82 posted on 06/19/2005 4:01:26 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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