Posted on 06/09/2005 6:37:49 PM PDT by Righty_McRight
HAGATNA, Guam - Guam and Hawaii are lobbying to be the Pacific homeport for a Navy aircraft carrier, eyeing the thousands of local jobs and millions of dollars it could bring to one of the islands' economies.
The Pentagon is considering moving one of its carriers — it has 12 total — to either Guam or Hawaii to be closer to potential flashpoints in Asia. The pending decision pits two tropical economies heavily dependent on tourism and the military in direct competition for more defense dollars.
Activists in both places have estimated an aircraft carrier would create more than 4,000 local jobs as the ship's 5,500 sailors and their families move to the community. Millions, if not billions, of federal dollars to upgrade roads, schools and other infrastructure also would likely accompany a carrier.
The military has said only that it is considering both locations.
The U.S. territory of Guam, the largest of the Northern Mariana Islands, is a mostly rural island of 160,000 people. Located just a few hours by plane from the Korean peninsula and the Taiwan Straits, Navy and Air Force land covers a third of its 212 square miles.
Adm. Arthur J. Johnson, commander of the U.S. Naval Forces Marianas, said the Navy's presence on Guam provides a powerful deterrent to terrorists.
"If you were a week away or two weeks away, that provides an opportunity to do something," Johnson said. "Just by having the capability in the neighborhood, it forces people, transnational terrorists, to redo their calculus."
This year, the Air Force started rotating F-15s to Guam from Idaho and B-2s to the island from Missouri. Three attack submarines have been based here in the past three years.
But Guam is no shoo-in. Hawaii, about 3,700 miles to the east, is headquarters for the U.S. Pacific Command, whose territory spreads from the West Coast to the Indian Ocean.
The Pentagon also has been expanding its presence in Hawaii, which has more than 1.2 million people, to take advantage of the state's proximity to Asia. The Army plans to move 800 soldiers to the isles for a Stryker brigade, while millions of dollars in infrastructure upgrades are in the pipeline.
Democratic Sen. Daniel Inouye (news, bio, voting record), a ranking member of the Senate Defense Appropriations Committee, has led Hawaii's campaign for the aircraft carrier, stressing its strategic location to Pentagon officials. He said the state's extensive roads, including three interstate freeways linking Oahu's major bases, and an Army hospital give it advantages over Guam.
"I think policy-makers will decide Hawaii is the place," he said.
Lee Webber, chairman of the Guam Chamber of Commerce's armed forces committee, said he and other community leaders have met congressmen, senators and their staffs in Washington over five years to lobby for Guam, which has an unemployment rate just under 8 percent.
"We're a bunch of little island boys ... saying 'Hey, this is what we think. Here's what we have. Come visit us, we like you. And you're welcome here," said Webber, also the publisher of Guam's largest newspaper, the Pacific Daily News.
At least one sailor's vote is going to Hawaii's legendary sun and surf. Lt. Joe Mitzen, a 26-year-old Navy engineer from Nesquehoning, Pa., said he would make a Hawaii-based carrier his first choice for assignment.
"This would just be fantastic — it's a tropical paradise," Mitzen said as the carrier USS Nimitz called on Pearl Harbor a few weeks ago. "How many people can say they live here?"
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On the Web:
Government of Guam: http://ns.gov.gu/government.html
State of Hawaii: http://www.hawaii.gov/portal/
Guam is an important strategic island for many reasons, as exemplified in WWII. Yet, there is no solution to change the weather or the vunerability to sub missile attack. A carrier has an entourage of support that Guam is physically & geographically unable to absorb. This current question has been hashed over for the last sixty yrs.
Well, I don't know the people of Guam very well. Is it a cultural problem? Someone needs to tell them to get their act together. Perhaps such a move could prompt this transformation.
Guam should by all means be a worldclass economic and tourism center. It's pathetic that they can't organize themselves better.
If I get selected for and complete Army OCS (and get my first branch choice, Armor), I am going to very annoyed if they stick me in a fricking Stryker brigade. Those things suck! And even being based in Hawaii wouldn't change that.
Hafa Adai! Guam is good!
HUH?
Neither wins. Nimitz & Reagan based in San Diego.
Where we have all the strike forces, air wings, etc.
largest amount of military here.
The only thing different from San Diego from Hawaii,
we have beaches, palm trees, great weather, etc.
I understand Hawaii has the same. But I will take San Diego
Are you serious? I lived for two years on Guam with two small kids. It's a GREAT place for families! The best I ever lived for kids! There was NO place on Guam I ever felt my kids were in any danger, ever. Friendlier folks you will never find!
Ping a roo!
Are you for real? Do you know how many B-27s were based in Guam at Andersen AFB during WW2? HUNDREDS. How about B-52s during Viet Nam? DOZENS.
Sorry, I misread your post, responded to fast. You and I agree. Guam can handle LOTS of aircraft!
Treader: "A carrier has an entourage of support that Guam is physically & geographically unable to absorb."
I disagree with that. I believe Guam COULD handle the carrier group. It simply won't put up the effort and money necessary from a local standpoint that Hawaii will. I think the legislators prefer Uncle Sam's handouts to actually making the decisions they need to get the island's government out of the 1970s, and its people integrated into the world's economy beyond leeching Asian tourist dollars and American military contractors.
TFine80: "Well, I don't know the people of Guam very well. Is it a cultural problem? Someone needs to tell them to get their act together. Perhaps such a move could prompt this transformation. Guam should by all means be a worldclass economic and tourism center. It's pathetic that they can't organize themselves better."
It is not so much a cultural problem as it is a historic one. The Chamorros who now politically control the island were first indoctrinated by the Spanish Catholic bureaucracy, then the Spanish military bureaucracy, then the American military bureaucracy, then the Japanese military bureaucracy, then the American Cold War military bureaucracy, and only now are they seeing private industry really introduced to Guam as locals leave the island and bring back education and ideas with them. I don't think Guam is an insular culture unreceptive to new things--I just think that, like most, it's a bit xenophobic, and because of years of training, used to doing things its way.
Unfortunately, its way has been set by the worst examples of bureaucracy on the planet. The only way it'd have been worse is to have sent in Russian agricultural experts.
I think things will change as the new guard rolls in--but that's going to take longer than this carrier group will to be established. Heck, right now they have a Republican legislature, governor, and attorney general, and they can't privatize water that doesn't work to get someone in that can run it. They have had schools that fail year after year, and they seem stuck in the notion that the facilities are at fault. Their legislature owes millions for the retirement of hospital staff and teachers, to the point that many have been told they CANNOT retire.
Those things are not going to change much until the locals suck it up, take responsibility and accept that cuts in government need to come. The Republicans don't seem at all eager to do anything about that. And as long as Uncle Sam looms as a free money source, they probably won't--reform will simply not happen in education or government. Someone telling them to 'get their act together' would be a quick fix, but still perpetuate the major problem, which is that Guam doesn't seem eager to face the world without Uncle Sam's help. In order to become a tourist destination and world class trade center, it needs to learn to deal with Asia and the rest of the globe on its own.
Of course, Uncle Sam needs to stop some of the restrictions it's placed on Guam, too, like Jones Act direct shipping restrictions, lack of a federal voice, and other problems that have come as a result of Guam's strategic position and long history. But the fault for the problems really doesn't lie so much with Uncle Sam as with the big government on Guam, which has long hoped for another Japanaboom and ain't gonna get it. Personal responsibility didn't sell well 20 years ago, and it doesn't sell well today, either.
How are Typhoons an issue? They don't exactly sneak up.
The DOD controls so much property in Guam, that it doesn't matter that the local govt sucks. They have their own DOD schools as you said, their own hospitals, etc.
But it does matter, because they have to use those roads and power and other facilities that Guam provides to do things. When generators are a way of life, you gotta know the infrastructure is underimpressive.
And local government IS important. If you're going to have contractors, you have to know that there are bidders there than can provide services. With the Rumsfeld reforms pushing local contracting to new highs, that's even more important. Guam can't provide some of the services necessary without shipping in folks. Education is simply awful, and professional services are very expensive.
No, local government is certainly not the only factor. But it's a big one. And I already said I LIKE Guam, even with those complaints. I've considered retiring there. But I don't think it's likely Guam will get it--with the caveat that, as somebody noted above, and I had neglected to consider, Hawaii must better figure out how to base the carrier air wing. Andersen is perfect that way, probably more expansion room and runway available than ANY other U.S. base.
But I don't think that will be a huge obstacle for Hawaii. We'll see. My money's on Hawaii, anyway. Maybe we can get that on tradesports. 8)
How about American Samoa? Pago Pago harbor is probably still deep enough, and very well protected. And the USMC recruitment rate there is still about 2-3x that of the mainland.
Samoa is too far south.
I appreciate your pov and concur, to a point. Regardless of the small time (large money) political corruption on this tiny island, that has been allowed in exchange for US tactical advantage- this island cannot support a carrier. It is just that simple. As I stated earlier, this thread question has been gone over repeatedly, for the last 60 years. Then again,... nah, that island is just not big enough- in many ways.
Leave the Carrier Groups where they are.
One Carrier group does not strike as much fear as missile bearing subs. There is a political power with the carrier but lets face it. We all know where the carriers are. Leave the carrier support jobs stateside-not in Guam. Maintain Hawaii as a secondary tactical launch and support center, tankers, food etc. Just in case long cycles are mandatory in Asia. Guam is too close in striking distance. They may not go for the carrier group but they can go for the base.
In the eventual conflict in Asia we need to protect the support staff. Keeping it on the mainland is safest.
I bet Hawaii. Guam already has an airfield, so in a sense, it is already an aircraft carrier. Besides, it is within range of the Chinese communist conventional missiles.
Lived there myself for 2 years! LOVED it, other than the LONG flight over. Typhoons aren't really an issue, as the ships just leave port! It did suck however being left alone while hubby rode out to sea! I was suprised that I liked it as much as I did. Look back on it now with fond memories! Glad I got to experience it!! (USS HOLLAND - AS32)
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