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To: rwfromkansas
If the word "predestinate" means in the Bible as you've expressed, i.e. that GOD has preselected whom individually HE will save and whom individually HE won't, then it's game, set, and match. The party's over, if you are not one of the predestinated chosen saved God's Private Club member.

Also, for those that were chosen, there's no need to heed Jesus' commission to his church to go and make disciples, baptize them, and teach them. Either you're in or your out, period. End of discussion. End of story. Let's all go do as we please, because in the end, nothing matters, at least regarding your salvation.

However, the Scriptures teach that both God’s sovereignty and man’s free will are components of this ultimately important decision. The Bible (taken in its entirety) clearly emphasizes the universal fact of sin and guilt on man’s part.

“As it is written, there is none righteous, no not one. . . . that all the world may become guilty before God” (Romans 3:10, 19).

It also stresses that the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ was completely adequate to atone for the sin and guilt of all men everywhere.

“He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world”(1 John 2:2).

“. . . that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man” (Hebrews 2:9).

God, in His Word, offers salvation freely to anyone who will simply believe and receive it as an unmerited gift (grace).

“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 6:23).

Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely” (Revelation 22:17).

Each person is held responsible for the consequences of making a wrong decision.

“He that believeth not the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God abideth on him” (John 3:36).

“The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Thessalonians 1:7, 8).

It is clear, to most, that every person, without exception, can be saved if he wants to be, by coming in simple faith to accept Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior, recognizing Jesus as the ONLY way he will be saved and reconciled unto GOD the Father.

However, for those who are not believing Christians, on the other hand, the issue remains one of human responsibility—either to live a life of absolute holiness and sinless perfection from birth to death (as did Jesus Christ), or else to come in repentant faith to that One who died for mankind’s sin and was raised for mankind's justification.

...whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life” (John 3:15).

"For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him, shall not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

Again, taking the message of the Bible, as a whole, predestination/preselection/ predetermination of those individuals who are saved and those who aren't cannot stand on it's own merits. We have ALL been predestinated by GOD for salvation, but through our own free will, only some of us will repent and accept that gift of grace so freely offered to ALL through Jesus' sacrifice accepted by the Father in leiu of our own worthless deeds.

243 posted on 06/08/2005 12:28:13 PM PDT by OB1kNOb (Excrementum Occurum)
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To: OB1kNOb

I am not convinced. You are reciting the same classic objection texts that have been thoroughly refuted by people far better than me.


274 posted on 06/08/2005 12:48:02 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=rwfromkansas)
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To: OB1kNOb

predestined to salvation through our free will?

That is so utterly silly it is hilarious.

Predestination is a sovereign decree. Look it up.

It could not be dependent upon our decision-making....PARTICULARLY SINCE WE ARE DEAD TO SIN AND OUR ONLY CHOICE WOULD BE DEATH!


279 posted on 06/08/2005 12:50:34 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=rwfromkansas)
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