2 'No' Votes in Europe: The Anger Spreads

NY Times ^ | June 2, 2005 | RICHARD BERNSTEIN

[neverdem]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's time to buy a clue.

[Spktyr]

Those countries (and Europe as a whole) desperately needs a Reagan or a Thatcher to straighten out the mess. Instead, they've got Ted Kennedys and Sheila Jackson Lees.

[Betaille]

"Europe as a whole) desperately needs a Reagan or a Thatcher to straighten out the mess."

Absolutely. Somebody needs to make the point that in most (if not all) of the countries that have ratified the treaty, the voters were never given the choice.

[nosofar]

Somebody needs to make the point that in most (if not all) of the countries that have ratified the treaty, the voters were never given the choice.

I don't believe the voters in the 13 colonies were given a choice in ratifying the U.S. Constitution, either. Admittedly, there were some mitigating circumstances: no television, no internet, no electricity, etc., which would have made this rather difficult.

[Betaille]

In that case it was probably done out of necessity and practicality. In this case there haven't been referendums because they fear that the referendums wouldn't give the desired result... and that IS undemocratic.

[groanup]

Thanks for posting. Excuse me, I have to go sell Euros and buy Dollars.

[wimpycat]

Ted Kennedy and Sheila Jackson-Lee would be considered "centre-right" in Europe.

[Spktyr]

You are unfortunately correct - doesn't change the fact that they need a Reagan or Thatcher. They're hitting their "general malaise and stagflation" stage, hard. They need a Reagan or Thatcher more than we did.

The only problem is that it looks like they ran off all the possible candidates for that role years ago.

[Dog Gone]

So the message that the MSM is adopting is that the EU constitution was rejected because it wasn't socialist enough.

Ergo, the solution is to make it more socialist.

Their agenda is so obvious.

[wimpycat]

I agree with you. However, I have faith in the Europeans' ability to sacrifice practicality, decisiveness, individual freedoms, optimism and cojones for the sake of a creative, 'nuanced', deep "idea" that ignores reality.

[colorado tanker]

Although there is no great conservative leader in Europe right now, there is Ireland, Poland, Estonia to show them how fast a free market low tax oriented economy can grow. Britain has come back from a mess in the 1970's to the most prosperous big European state under Thatcherite economics. It's right in front of them if they will allow themselves to see.

[Recall]

Aren't they all using the Euro now instead of their respective countries currency?

[Spktyr]

I agree, but they will not allow themselves to admit that the old ideas aren't working. They're trying to tax and spend themselves out of the hole that they dug by massive taxing and spending.

The first step of getting out of a hole is "stop digging." Most of Old Europe appears to be ordering steamshovels to help them dig.

[TomasUSMC]

X ACT LEE!

[Spktyr]

Yes, though that has problems of its own...

[colorado tanker]

Schroeder seems to want to try to win his election spewing more anti-American rhetoric. Fool me once, shame on me . . . . Yep, first rule of holes applies to the weasels.

[neverdem]

Aren't they all using the Euro now instead of their respective countries currency?

http://marketwatch.nytimes.com/custom/nyt-com/html-currencies.asp

No. Scroll down until you see "Currency Converter". Open up where you see "United Kingdom Pound", and click to see what Eurpoean countries retained their national currencies.

[GrannyML]

The US Constitution was ratified by each of the thirteen states, each of which held a convention of elected delegates.

[Fenris6]

I have faith in the Europeans' ability to sacrifice practicality, decisiveness, individual freedoms, optimism and cojones for the sake of a creative, 'nuanced', deep "idea" that ignores reality.

Your faith is not misplaced. Check out the comments here: http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/31/the-sheer-gaul-of-them

[wasp69]

I don't believe the voters in the 13 colonies were given a choice in ratifying the U.S. Constitution, either.

BS. The voters in the 13 sovereign states elected delegates to attend the Constitution Convention and they had their say.