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To: KalleKula
I would disagree for at least two reasons:

1) it really was not a step toward Liberalism, it was as step toward fascism. The "liberalization" would have only taken place in term of the internal EU market, and the state control only transfered to the "federal level." It is perhaps overstating the case to say that the liberalism in the Constitution is an illusions, but it would not be far off the mark.

2) The member states must solve their problems internally before they take up the issue of a "Federal Europe." It is not the case as it was at the time of America's founding where the 13 states we small, immature and independent polities. Even in the American experience it took almost 100 years to cement the notion of a "Federation." In fact, one could argue that the American nation as we know it did not really become a practical reality until the beginning of WW1. But is particularly dangerous in the case of the EU, for the Eurocrats will start pushing the EU as some sort of united military power when in fact it is a house of cards. This would be a disaster for the EU (end everyone else) for when the first body bags started piling up the unity would splinter. It would also mean a nuclear Germany and all that goes with it.

Europe needs to go very slowly toward a "superstate," and by slowly I mean take a couple of generations.

30 posted on 06/02/2005 6:44:53 AM PDT by CasearianDaoist
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To: CasearianDaoist

Exactly. On your next trip to Brussels, take an hour to visit the neighborhood of the EU. Have a drink at the Swisshotel off the Rue de Terveren. It and other watering holes are rife with the limo drivers, 'courtesans' and minor luminaries of the 'Court.' Billions of Euros have been spent on attempting to create a 21st century version of Versailles. Let them eat cake is not dead.


36 posted on 06/02/2005 7:15:02 AM PDT by masadaman
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To: CasearianDaoist

"Even in the American experience it took almost 100 years to cement the notion of a "Federation." "

INDEED. America had 4 progressions from a continent of independent States in a confederation to a national "USA".
1) 1789 - US Constitution replacing articles of confederation strengthens what was a weak Congress and President, and creates a Federal judiciary.
2) 1865 - Civil War and consideration of United States as 'one nation' not a bunch of independent states. 14th Amendment codified that into law; we became United States citizens with equal rights and privileges of such in all states.
3) 1913 - Income tax and direct election of Senators change national Government into working for 'the people' instead of as representatives of states. national govt powers expand.
4) 1930s - New Deal; "federal regulation" create on large scale and national regulatory and govt spending scheme. high federal income tax rates imposed.
5) 1960s - Great Society; welfare state expanded greatly on the national level.

EU *already* has #4 via the Brussels bureaucrats, and already redistributes budgets, something the United States didnt do until recent decades (great society and 'bloc grants'). So the EU Constitution is giving great powers and involvement than the US Federal Govt had for most of its history.

EU ought to try the kind of EU Government USA had from 1789 to 1865 for, oh, say, 70 years: No budget re-distribution from one state to another; no imposition of Federal law over State law except in very specific areas (eg creation of money); no Federal-level welfare-state spending ...
Do that and then take the next step later.


39 posted on 06/02/2005 8:35:50 AM PDT by WOSG (Liberating Iraq - http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com)
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