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To: Vicomte13
I value your contributions to FR on matters French - your views seem to be both informed and balanced. I am curious, however, about your statement that "perhaps 6.5 percent" of the French population is of Muslim origin. I believe that the official census deliberately omits collection of any such information. I have seen estimates as low as 5 percent and as high as 20 percent. Does anyone in France really know how many Moslems (or people of Moslem origin) are in the country?
32 posted on 06/01/2005 6:28:01 PM PDT by Malesherbes (uestion)
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To: Malesherbes

"I am curious, however, about your statement that "perhaps 6.5 percent" of the French population is of Muslim origin. I believe that the official census deliberately omits collection of any such information. I have seen estimates as low as 5 percent and as high as 20 percent. Does anyone in France really know how many Moslems (or people of Moslem origin) are in the country?"

The census does not "deliberately OMIT to collect such information". It would be unnatural for a state to distinguish between its citizens based on such things. I should rather say that the American government deliberately chooses to classify its citizens in categories, and to give them special rights relative to one another, as in Blacks and Amerindiens, Hispanics and others. The American census also differentiates Americans based on their religion. Of what possible use could these artificial distinctions be to government, unless government wished to give them some sort of legal existence and force, and to give certain citizens rights over other citizens?

In France, it would be highly illegal and abnormal for the state to make such distinctions. These statistics serve no legitimate purpose, but if money is spent on creating their existence, it is certain that a bad use will be found for such numbers. The problem is avoided: the French state does not engage in such illicit divisions of French people in categories.

So, you are correct, there are no official statistics.

There are, however, unofficial statistics prepared by different parties each eager to make a point. Jean-Marie Le Pen and his Front National, for example, has an interest in fomenting division among French people by causing them to distinguish one sort of French person from another. Therefore, his party generates their own unofficial numbers to show that Beurs are running wild and breeding like hares.
The Institut du Monde Arab and the politicians eager to court the vote of a substantial Beur population as such also seek to generate figures. More neutral academic studies seek to generate figures. European institutions studying demographics seek to generate figures. There are many figures around.

To get 6.5%, I used the estimate population of people of Muslim origin in the French Republic, and divided that into the population of the Republic. I included, as is appropriate, the populations of the DOM, but not the TOM. This results in the 6.5% figure.

I point out, however, that being of North African origin does not equate to being Muslim, any more than being of European French origin equates to being a Christian today.
Secular French people are a large portion of the population, and it is not appropriate to include them in counts of Catholics in France. Those who do not attend Church and do not believe in God are not Catholics. Their ancestors were, but they are not. Now, likewise, there are an enormous number of people of Muslim origin in France who are completely secular. They do not attend mosque. They date and marry other seculars in France, of Catholic origins or otherwise. These people are French, not Muslim. They are product of French schools. Their values are French and secular. Some are turbulent, but they are turbulent like football hooligans from Britain. This is not Islamism breaking out. It is juvenile delinquence.

It is perhaps only natural that Americans, who consider the American population to be formally, and legally, Black, or White, or Hispanic, or American Indian, with rights and privileges and grievances running formally in bloodlines, and percentages of blood required to qualify for special legal status and the like, would simply look at a French person of North African lineage and say "Muslim". But the fact is that most North Africans of Muslim origin born in France are not Muslim at all. They are secular and French.

There are SOME Islamists and there is SOME transferrance of the religion. But that France is headed towards dhimmitude is preposterous. How does one count a metisse? Is she a Muslim or a Catholic? Especially if she practices neither religion.

There certainly IS a struggle to make sure that in schools young Beurs are properly indoctrinated in French culture, and the symbols of aggressive Islam be excluded from competition in the institutions of state. Clearly it is not in the interest of France for young people in the schools to be presented with the CHOICE between cultural Islam and its anti-egalitarian principles, and the values of France. This is why the head-scarf is excluded. But the process of education and secularization has been quite successful overall. Arab immigrants are Muslim. Their Beur children are on the cusp between France and North Africa, with secular France usually winning the day. Girlfriends and boyfriends help to speed this process along. And their children are French. This is the process of assimilation. It is generational.


37 posted on 06/01/2005 7:47:20 PM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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