Art Stolen by Nazis 'Cannot Be Returned'

Scotsman ^ | Sat 28 May 2005 | KAREN MCVEIGH

[gridlock]

In other words, the Brits passed a law exempting museums from ordinary property law.

Well, that makes sense to me. Good public policy, if you ask me.

[Joe Driscoll]

Good public policy, if you ask me.

You honestly believe that? Would you feel that way if we were talking about your property?

[ozzymandus]

The Russians have warehouses full of this type of stuff, and they have no intention of ever returning it. The have so much loot, they've never even cataloged it.

[gridlock]

Would you feel that way if we were talking about your property?

If they were talking about my property, I would have been dead fifty years. But in any case, public policy is not always dictated by the interest of the individual involved in the case. That is why we don't let the law cater to every individual who comes down the pike, but set one rule for everybody.

[monday]

"Well, that makes sense to me. Good public policy, if you ask me."

The Communists had the same attitude towards private property. The only difference is that instead of just allowing Museums to steal, every branch of the government was allowed to steal.

Governments should not be in the Museum business in the first place. Allowing them to steal private property makes a mockery of property rights, which is the foundation of western society.

Since only a few are affected I don't expect that it will change, but that doesn't make it right. Imagine what would happen if the British museum appropriated (stole) the heirlooms of every Briton? The law would be overturned in a heartbeat. That fact alone should tell you that it is unfair.

[Savage Beast]

Yeah, my Greek guide didn't like that either.

If Elgin hadn't taken the marbles to Britain, they'd be gravel by now.

[muawiyah]

Elgin had his detractors, of course. They are the same kind of people who work at the Washington Post and New York Times today.

Another factoid ~ the Turks sold Lord Rothschild the Golan Heights so he could restart a Jewish homeland.

Rothschild continues to have his detractors, and you oughta' see the gang that thinks the most important theing in the world is to give Golan to Syria, a country that never owned the place!

[Canard]

"I see they have activist judges in Great Britain too."

I hardly see how you get that from this particular judgement. Entirely the opposite in fact.

The judge was very sympathetic to the claim, as he stated in his ruling, but was only able to apply the law as written by the legislature which mandates that the trustees may only relinquish control of part of the museum collection in specific circumstances (you can find the British Museum Act to read online if you wish).

I see 'activist judge' is now being used as a synonym for 'any judge who comes to a verdict with which I personally disagree'.

[monday]

"If Elgin hadn't taken the marbles to Britain, they'd be gravel by now."

Doubtful, since the ones he left behind aren't gravel now.

[monday]

"I see 'activist judge' is now being used as a synonym for 'any judge who comes to a verdict with which I personally disagree'."

lol... I noticed that too.

[dervish]

I think a better case can be made for recovering tangible property than any other reparation.

If one can prove ownership then it is like other cases of stolen property where the theft victim often makes recovery. Also museums are part of an ethical code of conduct that goes beyond the constraints of legal obligation. They do this because they are high on the victim list. It is like the Geneva Convention of the art world.

[passionfruit]

"What kind of insane country has laws that prohibit giving something away?"

In California, Museums only need to keep items for a certain period of time, (I think 18 months) then they can dispose of it however they please.

[dervish]

I agree. Stolen property is recovered from third parties all the time, even those who did not know or have reason to know the property was stolen.

I do wonder, in general, about how much in the case of stolen art is a deliberate desire not to know. There are often elaborate records of art sales.

[chainsaw]

Yes, I personally disagree with any government law/judge that allows an entity to receive and keep stolen property if the rightful owner is ascertained.

[Canard]

I have no problem with you disagreeing with the law, as do I, as does the judge in this case, as does the British Museum which wants to return the items in question.

I was objecting to your use of the phrase 'activist judge'. The judge in this case has correctly ruled on the law as written. If he had made the judgement that you seem to think he should, then he would be liable to be labelled an activist jusge as he would have been ruling entirely on what he thinks the law should be, not what it actually is.

The main problem with the law in this case is simply that it doesn't seem to have been written envisaging this situation arising and has given the trustees of the museum no discretion to be able to do what seems to obviously be the right thing.

[Savage Beast]

Some are. Including the Venus de Milo's arms and the Victory's head.

[johnb838]

They ought to return that stone under the throne to Scotland, and the crown jewels to India too. If England returned everything they had that was plundered, there wouldn't be anything left!

In other news, did you know the United States Capitol building was built with Slave Labor?

[Schwaeky]

Judicial tyranny at work... Where's Donald Trump when we need him to tell them "You're Fired."

[cyborg]

good point *lol*

[nickcarraway]

They ought to return that stone under the throne to Scotland

Actually, the Stone of Scone was returned to Scotland November 15, 1996. So they can do it.