Me 262 flys again

stormbirds.com ^ | 5/27/05 | stormbirds.com

[Taxman]

I still have my Command Excellence Instructor materials, and still usem FRom time to time.

I need to get the DVD -- my tape is just about worn out, also!

[Southack]

"In 1996, I was hired to liquidate the estate of a 'mad scientist' in San Diego. I found photographs of an ME 262 being reverse engineered at San Bernardino Air Materials Command (which later became Norton AFB). The photos were dated June, 1944. By then Norton AFB was shut down, and I couldn't find anyone who knew about it."

The U.S. investigated the ME-262 to see how it stacked up against the Bell Aeracomet (first U.S. jet fighter, produced and flew in October of 1942) and the Hughes D-2 jet fighter (first flown on June 20, 1943 at Harper Dry Lake in the Mojave Desert).

The D-2's problem, however, was political. It used XF-11 (Spruce Goose) funds in order to keep it secret, and was so illegal that it "burned up" mere weeks after its successful proof of concept (a test in which it raced past some U.S. propellor-driven fighters in California).

[wolficatZ]

"I also recall that the Russians debuted their T-34 on the Eastern Front near the end of the war. 1 single 34 took out a couple dozen Tigers, before it was taken out."

 

 

Do you mean the JS-III tank?

 

 

Interesting topic to research:

 

"quote:

---

The first test group of IS-3's left the factory gates in mid-May 1945. Despite western opinion (usually I hear about IS-3's seen on the streets of Vienna), IS-3 tanks weren't involved in battles on the Eastern Front. The participation of IS-3's in Far Eastern Front battles (in August 1945) is still unverified: at least one tank regiment of IS-3 tanks was sent, but Soviet combat records don't confirm any actual combat. "

 

"The JS III was used in combat one was knocked out at the Florisdorf Bridge Bridgehead in Vienna 12 April 45 by SS Obersturmfuhrer Arnold Friesen, as well as quite a few other bits of ruskie kit.

He was commanding a Panther!!!!"

 

I'd love to see some photos to document the claim.

I've heard arguments for both sides of this issue, but the release of Soviet military operational records seems to side with the Russian position that they were only sent to the west after the war was over.

quote:

---

On September 7th 1945, the allied nations were staggered by Russia's disclosure of their JS-3 heavy tank at a victory parade in Berlin. (very true)

---

Officers of the 2nd SS Panzerdivision "Das Reich" discuss the defense and evacuation of Vienna on 13 April 1945. The officers are conferring on the Vienna side of the Danube River, at the foot of the Floridsdorfer Bridge.


One of the last Pzkw. IV tanks of Panzerdivision "Das Reich" guards the Vienna side of the Floridsdorf railroad bridge (Nordbahnbrücke). Otto Weidinger (in overcoat) walks toward the camera in the center of the photo.

Assaulted by the 5th Guards Tank Corps from the NW and the 9th Gds.Mechanized Corps from the south, most of Das Reich's panzers were backed up against the Donau Canal, just north of Vienna during the second week of April. The division's last significant tank battle was fought there on the 13th.

Early that morning, Oscha. Barkmann's Panther was put out of action, not by enemy fire, but by driving into a bomb crater and damaging its steering. In the vicinity, near the west end of the Floridsdorf bridge across the Donau Canal, a lone 6th Pz. company Pz.IV fought on, but soon was silenced. Ostuf. Karl-Heinz Boska, c/o of that company, rounded up 3 Panthers on the other side of the bridge and led them toward the German's dwindling bridghead. The 3 tanks made it halfway back across the bridge before they were knocked out and Boska wounded. Das Reich's panzer force had virtually ceased to exist.

--------------------
Andy Magee
Maj, OD
US Army (Ret)"

 

http://208.55.221.133/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=reply;f=1;t=002655

So this topic is unresolved so far.

 

OK..back to the Me-262..I didn't intend to change the subject here.

 

[wolficatZ]

This historic film footage was actually employed by the Luftwaffe to initiate their ace pilots to the Messerschmitt ME-262 jet fighter. While some cuts from this film may have been previously seen, it is believed that this entire uncut version has not been viewed since April 1945 at the Lechfeld Luffwaffe 262 training base in Germany.

Using actual Luftwaffe pilots and ground crew, the film briefs the student pilot on the 262's flight controls and instrumentation. Addressed in particular is jet engine theory and operation with the aid of animated graphics. Watch spectacular wet starts of the turbines resulting in huge flames pouring from the engine's exhaust. Witness incredible air to air footage and high speed fly-pasts. Experience your first solo flight in the legendary ME-262 exactly as the new pilots of that era did. Learn how to start the turbines, inject fuel and ignite it.

Understand your jet's revolution thresholds, landing gear and electrical systems. By the time you finish watching this rare piece of real history, you'll feel qualified enough for your first solo flight in the machine. This ME-262 pilot check-out film is narrated by Luftwaffe jet ace Oberleutnant Franz Stigler of JV44 the mythical Galland Circus and of JG-27 of North Afrika fame. Over the course of the hostilities, Stigler flew over 500 combat missions, was shot down 17 times, had 28 confirmed kills to his credit including 11 four engine bombers plus over 30 other probable.

B&W/Color, 52 minutes.

See also Messerschmitt Me-262: The Official Pilot Check-Out Film: Special Video/Autograph Offer.

http://www.ihffilm.com/ihf/dvd057.html

I've seen a lot of excerpts from this film in various documentaries.

I'm trying to find this film with NO SUBTITLES...subtitles are ok for foreign feature films..but not stuff like this..lol.

[investigateworld]

Wow. Now that's a factoid which was totally beyond me!!!
I always heard the D-2 was a prop job, or did Hughes also back a prop job fighter?

[wolficatZ]

 

"Mine would have to be the ugly duckling that never got a chance to take on the Germans, but tore through Japanese fighters like crap through a goose and later served in Korea: the F4U Corsair."

Fleet Air Arm Corsairs took part in the raids against the Tirpitz docked in Norway..but encountered no air opposition.

I believe there was one encounter between FAA F-6F Hellcats and a mixed bag of Fw-190s and Me-109s..the Brits shot them all down with no loss..I'll see if I can find the actual reference.

Vought CORSAIR

Artists impression of captured Corsair in German markings - What if scheme for Corsair by chaser one (ref)

Corsair JT404 of 1841 squadron. Involved in anti-submarine patrol from HMS Formidable enroute to Scapa after Operation Mascot against the German Battleship Tirpitz, in company with Barracuda of Wing Leader Lt Cdr RS Baker-Falkner. Emergency landing in a field at Sorvag, Hameroy, near Bodo, Norway on 18 July 1944. The pilot Lt Mattholie taken POW and the aircraft captured intact with no damage. The german authorities made attempts to get the pilot to explain how to fold the wings so as to transport the aircraft to Narvik. Aircraft was ferried by boat for further investigation. It is not known if the Corsair was taken to Germany.  This was probably the first Corsair captured by the Germans.  Aircraft is listed at Rechlin for 1944 under repair. 

 http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Aircraft/FAACapturedAircraftHomepage.html

 

[Southack]

Egads...You're correct. I must be thinking of an aircraft quite different from the D-2. Sorry about that.

[Tallguy]

Yes, that is fantastic. I would, however, prefer the F-86 Sabre. That would be a hotrod.

[Kozak]

Hope they bring it to Oskkosh for EAA.

[Tallguy]

Did US Navy aircraft ever engage the Luftwaffe during WWII?

Don't know for sure, but look into the history of the USS Ranger (CV-4). During her rather limited combat career her F4F Wildcats supported the Torch landings. I know that they engaged French aircraft, including some Curtiss-built P-36 Hawks. They may have engaged some German aircraft, too.

I think that some German Condors (Long-range, 4-engine recon/bombers) were engaged by our escort carriers and CAM ships. Mostly, the Condors were scouting for the U-boats, so nailing one of those must have been pretty satisfying, even if it did suggest that a wolfpack was in the vicinity.

[Tallguy]

German submarines were no match for American radar, sonar, and depth charges, either.

Interesting side note: a lot of the really advanced RADAR work was done by Britain. To prevent a lot of duplication-of-effort, the Brits agreed to 'give' the US access to their technology in exchange for 'our' research on atomic weaponry. Licensing the Rolls-Royce "Merlin" engine to Packard would be another example of technological cooperation. You can probably think of dozens of others...

[IonImplantGuru]

My father flew at the cusp between jets and propeller aircraft. He said exactly what you said. The early jets were dogs until they spooled up but obviously at altitude they were far superior to the prop planes.

How about that? So did my Dad! He was an aviation machinest's mate in the Navy from WW II through the late 50s. His boast was "I can take apart and reassemble a Wright Cyclone radial engine blind-folded!" He went through the transition from piston to turbine era.