"Tell, me how would you have to prove it, since as a customer you are not required to keep records or receipts, only sellers are."
For starters, but remember how the income tax would never exceed 2%, only hit the richest two percent, and would be ended just as soon as 'The War to End all Wars' was over?
"The point being the only way a customer can be drawn into an investigation is by negotiating with ole Vinny there to evade the NRST..."
Actually, just the possession of property or goods could be sufficient. Think tax stamps like those found on cigarettes and liquor. The pressure to avoid the NRST will be directly proportional to the NRST rates. One way to ensure compliance would be the inspection of your property. I know you don't think it could happen, but one should always be on the look-out for unforeseen consequences.
"The problem with the current system and most proposals I have seen, the tax systems tend to hide the cost of government from large swaths of the electorate, allowing the same ole rob Peter pay Paul mentality that continues to plauge politics and or form of government."
Oh, I fully agree but I do not see the NRST as the best way to achieve this objective. I think it would be quicker and simpler to just do away with the concept of payroll witholding. Require every American to sit down once a month and figure their witholding and write a check to the treasury.
Far too many people do not think they pay taxes since they get a refund at tax time. This is despite the fact that for many, their refund is a small fraction of what they actually paid. Or, just ask your typical American what they make and they'll tell you their net income, not their gross.
This system would demonstrate to Average American that they do pay taxes and just exactly how much they do pay. I would hope that such a system would immediately lead to demands for decreased spending, particularly on income transfer programs, and it might even lead to a total income tax reform, maybe even your NRST.
"Much better to have the cost fully in the open in view of every voters perceptions than to continue the shell game that government gets away with today with half the voting population not participating in the tax system or even when the do perrceiving a net gain from income tax system in the form of EITC and similar scams."
I couldn't agree more, that's why I like doing away with payroll witholding. It gets us there without the risks of totally transforming the tax system with all the 'unintended consequences'.
You see, we share much of the same objectives.
For starters, but remember how the income tax would never exceed 2%, only hit the richest two percent, and would be ended just as soon as 'The War to End all Wars' was over?
Let me see if I understand you. An NRST collected by retailers tacking on 30% onto everyone's goodies, is somehow to be equated with a 2% tax that would only hit the richest two percent.
Sorry, the analogy fails right out of the gate.
Furthermore, the only place for the tax to get collected in normal circumstance is through that retailer, who in choosing to be in such business has agreed to collect said tax, and remit it in a timely fashion to the state sales tax administrators and for so doing receive a compensation for his efforts. Of course being a business licensed and paid to perform this service that business will be monitor and audited as is normal practice today. This is somehow supposed to change WHY?
Actually, just the possession of property or goods could be sufficient.
Actually no, as every one posseses property and goods in the normal course of their lives. Insufficient cause for a warrant. As there is only one basis for possession of goods and services to be sufficient for criminal investigation is where such property or goods are tied to ole Vinney out there.
Think tax stamps like those found on cigarettes and liquor. The pressure to avoid the NRST will be directly proportional to the NRST rates.
Actually not, as studies in Europe with even higher rates have shown. The primary force operative is not rate of the tax, the primary factor is the red tape on small businesses and perceptions of unfairness when one group is treated differently from others.
One way to ensure compliance would be the inspection of your property.
Inspection of my property means nothing unless tied to an evaded tax. Mere possession of property or goods is a normal occurence. The best way to ensure compliance is to focus on those who are charged with the responsibility to collect and remit the tax in the first place, the vender of the goods and services being sold. Fewer venders than there are customers by more than a factor of 10 to 1, thus much more effective for state governments to go after the guy selling as is required in the legislation and by logic. Concentration of resources into the real job that is collecting the tax, is what is at issue, not hasseling the voters.
. I know you don't think it could happen, but one should always be on the look-out for unforeseen consequences.
And one can dream up all kinds of nightmare scenarios of nil probability. Sorry you provide no basis in reason for your blanket knock down everone's door approach to collecting sales taxes in the face of much more efficient means to do so without p'ssing the electorate off. Doesn't fly.
Oh, I fully agree but I do not see the NRST as the best way to achieve this objective. I think it would be quicker and simpler to just do away with the concept of payroll witholding. Require every American to sit down once a month and figure their witholding and write a check to the treasury.
ROTFLMAO, half the voting population pays no income tax, and has no reason to even file a tax return much less write a check to the treasury. Many of them infact receive money from the treasury via the EITC.
The Honorable James DeMint (R-SC)
United States House of Representatives
APRIL 5, 2001
- "There has been a shift in the relationship between individuals and government, he argues, such that fewer and fewer are paying taxes at the same time that more and more are receiving increasingly generous benefits. If it becomes the case that most voters do not bear a financial burden for this largess, then there will be little to restrain--and significant political incentives to encourage--the continued growth of government.
Far too many people do not think they pay taxes since they get a refund at tax time.
We've seen the enemy and he is us!!
Bush touts relief as tax day looms
Another 3.9 million Americans will have their income tax liability completely eliminated, officials said.
That's 3.9 million Americans more added to the spending constituency of 70% of the public clamoring for more from government, expecting someone else to foot the bill.
You see, we share much of the same objectives.
Except for one, they is no purpose to be served by maintaining a tax system that requires the individual to report his financial condition to government, other than it serves the power of government to do so.
The Intent of the individual income tax is for political and social control not revenue collection. The Individual Income tax is maintained to establish and hold every person in the country perpetual legal jeopardy. That is a situation that must end with the repeal of the income tax from the statutes, and the prohibition of its use by Constitutional amendment that future generations will not face the same manner of manipulation and interference in their lives.
| "As a matter of fact, what the income tax does — and this is the debate that I think we always try to get into in order to let you and him fight, see — and the people of this country are led down a path where the actual control of their resources, which in the end is the control over their will, is handed off to the government." . . . "The government then manipulates that will in order to destroy the freedom of our electoral system through the income tax structure, and we call the resulting slavery a free system." "In point of fact, it is not as the founders understood, and the only way to restore real freedom is to give people back control over the income that they earn so that they won‘t, at the voting booth and in other phony issues, be subject to that manipulation." |
Bottomline, the issue is a moral one not an economic one:
| I discussed the importance of abolishing the income tax because of its tendency to form a habit of servility in the souls of a people that accepts it. Servility of soul is bad not only in itself, it is also an open door through which will soon walk the abuses of ambitious government power. Leaders who find themselves with governmental power over a servile people will be quick to conclude that such a people exist to serve them. |
"I think it would be quicker and simpler to just do away with the concept of payroll witholding. Require every American to sit down once a month and figure their witholding and write a check to the treasury."
Any idea how many people would have to be added to the IRS to track down all the non-filers under such a system? I believe the current headcount of the IRS is about 100,000. Do you think we could expand the IRS to 500,000 to maintain minimal compliance under such a system, or do you think it would take more than that?
Certainly we do share many of the same objectives, but it is important to eliminate the income tax (along with the corresponding tax code) as well as the estate, gift, and other taxes that the FairTax rids us of. It also eliminates the IRS, defunds it, and requires destruction of the income tax recoprds.
To me, that is a much better base to proceed from in the 21st century.