Posted on 05/27/2005 7:51:18 PM PDT by blam
Chirac ready to turn his anger on Blair if France votes Non
By Toby Helm, Chief Political Correspondent
(Filed: 28/05/2005)
Tony Blair and Jacques Chirac will be pitched into a furious six-month dispute over the future direction of the European Union if the French people vote No to the EU constitution tomorrow.
Government sources are braced for the French president to round on the Prime Minister and blame him for making the constitution too "Anglo-Saxon" on economic issues and for plunging Europe into crisis as a result.
The French people go to the polls on Sunday
They also expect Mr Chirac to launch a fresh assault on Britain's £3 billion rebate from the EU budget.
British diplomats believe that Mr Chirac will call for France, Germany and other nations to form a "core Europe" in which they can push ahead with integration without being held back by laggards such as Britain.
However, Mr Blair and Gordon Brown, the Chancellor, want to use Britain's six-month EU presidency, which begins on July 1, to argue that eurozone economies need flexible British and American-style economies rather than heavy regulation and tax harmonisation.
Speaking in Rome yesterday after talks with Silvio Berlusconi, his Italian counterpart, before the G8 summit in July, Mr Blair described economic reform as "essential".
He said: "The big issue that faces our citizens now in Europe is how do we increase our prosperity in an era of globalisation, in an era of intense competition - not just within Europe but outside Europe."
Mr Blair is spending the bank holiday in a Tuscan villa with his wife, Cherie, and son, Leo, five. Downing Street would not confirm that the Blairs were staying as guests of Prince Girolomo Strozzi near Sienna.
Government officials say Mr Blair will give no quick response about the implication for a British referendum of a French No. Ministers are expected to hold emergency discussions with their EU counterparts and the European Commission before any decisions are taken.
A YouGov poll for The Daily Telegraph today finds that 42 per cent of voters believe that, even if the French say No, a referendum should go ahead here because relations with the EU are so important.
What is the worst neighborhood in America.
The very worst.
Is it in the US capital, or is it in Detroit? Perhaps it is in the South Bronx of New York, or the Projects of Chicago. Or perhaps in Watts in Los Angeles.
Let us stipulate to the worst neighborhood in the US.
And then let us compare that to the worst neighborhood in France. Perhaps Clichy? Aubervilliers? Bondy?
I want to focus on the very bottom of the bottom, because children are born into that in both places, and none of us choises the circonstances of his birth.
It is down there that the difference between France's social solidarity and America's is most stark.
Certainly the cost of the difference down there accounts for some - although not all - of the difference between Americans and French when one nears the upper parts of the economic scale.
But that is where we need to start.
The reason that the debt-economy works is due to economic growth. As long as the percentage of debt to the GDP remains relatively constant, the economy will not be affected. Currently the value is almost 70% and rising. If the value goes over 100% the economy will become more unstable. If the economy performs poorly (lowering GDP), the debt to GDP ratio will increase providing positive feedback--making the economy perform even worse. For this reason, the US economy needs to be constantly tweaked.
I'm not an economist but I assume that as long as the government keeps a close leash on the public debt to GDP, the economy will operate normally. If the GDP rises rapidly without an increase in government spending, the positive feedback should allow the economy to operate better.
I don't think it is realistic to eliminate public debt as a way of operating a government. Almost every country in the world operates with a public debt, averaging about 50-70%. With that being said, the US public debt situation is unsatisfactory right now (I won't use harsh words like 'dangerous' until it gets to roughly 150%). It is obvious that the percentage of public debt to GDP is going to be rising for the next couple of years. Concrete conservative action must be taken to stabilize it.
From my experience, I think that the Japanese medical system is a very high quality one. In some areas, their use of medical instrumentation is often more high-end than what I have seen in the U.S.
The US, Britain and France each spend about 3% of GDP on defense. The rest of European countries spend much less.
Vote NON Frenchies !
Vive La France !
"I want to focus on the very bottom of the bottom, because children are born into that in both places, and none of us choises the circonstances of his birth.
It is down there that the difference between France's social solidarity and America's is most stark.
Certainly the cost of the difference down there accounts for some - although not all - of the difference between Americans and French when one nears the upper parts of the economic scale.
But that is where we need to start. "
The difference is opportunity, and of course, the work ethic. The immigrant family in the Bronx working 3 jobs will work hard , and save enough and send their children to the best schools they can get into. In 2 generations, they will be professionals, lawyers, doctors, engineers and teachers.
Look at someone like Mario Cuomo, not my favorite politico, but a good example. His parents came here from Italy and were illiterate in their own language. The worked hard, knew the importance of a good education, and inculcated those values to their children. Mario worked summers and after school and went to College, and then tpo Law School, and a career as an attorney before being elected Governor of NY. His children are now doctors, lawyers, and journalists.
My shoemaker... the same story, came from Russia 25 years ago to escape religious and political persecution. He worked 70 hours a week, and built an excellent business.
His daughter was graduated from Harvard College and Harvard Medical School. His son the same.
That sort of opportunity and social mobility is not available in France. If you are the son of a butcher.... you are not going to be a lawyer, doctor or President. You will be a butcher, most likely.
It is called THE AMERICAN DREAM. And the reason so many generations have believed in it is because they know it is true. True for their parents and grandparents, true for the, and true for their children. The French ridicule this. It is amazing what strong values, determination, and hard work can accomplish here.
I think my message, repeated on so many threads on this board, is that France is not particularly socialist as compared to the United States.
The systems are really quite parallel, in terms of social protection. France's coverage is more comprehensive, of more bands of people, than is America's, but this is not socialism. Socialism is the ownership by the state of the means of production. France is a capitalist nation. Almost all industry is in private hands or in the process of being privatized.
What Americans are calling "socialism" is really just "regulation", and America has great mounds of regulations as well. There are many areas of life in which American government is altogether more intrusive and regulatory.
The legal system in America is just unbelieveable.
Also, the tax system. Most French taxes are collected in the form of social security tax on pay and Value Added Tax on goods - a sales tax. The income tax is rather small compared to the US, and it is not so filled with loopholes. Also, in France there is a proscription period after which the authorities may not prosecute a person for tax issues. In America, murder and tax evasion are two crimes that have no statute of limitations.
Which means that American politicians desiring to crush political opponents use the American Tax authorities to investigate their rivals and destroy them using the legal system for faults committed long ago.
There are aspects of American law that are really quite shocking to French people.
"That sort of opportunity and social mobility is not available in France. If you are the son of a butcher.... you are not going to be a lawyer, doctor or President. You will be a butcher, most likely."
Completely untrue.
It depends entirely upon how well one does on ones exams, and of course one's interests. Law is the most popular subject in university in France, with more adherents than any other. Few become lawyers, but that is due to lack of interest and unwillingness to study and pass the exams, not some sort of arbitrary line. The sons and daughters of housebuilders grow up to become...lawyers, businesspeople, fonctionnaires of the state, postmen, teachers, and housebuilders...depending on what interests them and what they like to do.
But I was not referring to the immigrant.
By the fact that he came to America he had a light shining in his eyes that made him exceptional in his home country, and this he will impart to his children even if he is materially poor.
I am referring to the native born American black in the worst ghetto, the one for whom there is no injection of immigrant drive, the one who is completely the product of America, for many generations. The black in the projects in the worst city, versus the dwellers of the HLM in the worst banlieux of Paris. Native blood and system input compared with native blood and system input.
"I am referring to the native born American black in the worst ghetto, the one for whom there is no injection of immigrant drive, the one who is completely the product of America, for many generations. The black in the projects in the worst city, versus the dwellers of the HLM in the worst banlieux of Paris. Native blood and system input compared with native blood and system input."
The French media always portrays America in the worst possible light, and most French people are totally brainwashed.
Where are the articles and news shows about the ever growing, ever more prosperous, and ever more REPUBLICAN, I might add, Black middle class?
Have you watched American TV lately. The spokespeople for the GOP? Even for the Dems?
Al Shady Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and their racially devisive hate politica are no longer role models for black young people.
Condi Rice, Colin Powell, Harold Ford,Jr, JC Watts, Barack Obama are. This is a new world Monsieur le Vicomte. The world you are speaking of is long gone.
If Princess Di had her car accident in the U.S. she would be alive today. And I can gaurantee you our health system doesn't shut down for two weeks during the summer while our elderly die of heat stroke.
But this quote.
That Americans spend 4.9% less, and have universal anxiety. It is a judgment call.
France is Jerry Lewis and Woody Allen combined when it comes to nuerosis and anxiety.
You point out we have a 50-50 split in private to public funding of education. Imagine how much more money would be available at our classroom level if we didn't pass it through our government filter. France invented bureaucracy, America gluttonized it.
I love your discovery rules. Wish our civil law was like that.
France was once the greatest nation on earth. But she has lost her way. Stop selling out your principles for fleeting power and wealth.
They vote on Sunday? how weird.
The French people say no to this nonsence and it is Blair's fault????? What a maroon.
If there is a common price, the French will pay more. The companies have patents on drugs. To maximize their profits, they will charge more in Europe, and less in the US. Right now, they make their profits that help pay in part for the research in the US, and then get a small variable profit from the monopsonistic buyers. It is an imperfection in the market. Monopolies always are. That is why everybody has laws restraining them, except against governments.
"Government sources are braced for the French president to round on the Prime Minister and blame him for making the constitution too "Anglo-Saxon" on economic issues and for plunging Europe into crisis as a result."
Chirac is a buffoon. So far he had Schroeder of Germany and a few other European socialist leaders to second his ludicrous outbursts. Hopefully that is gonna change with a new, conservative government in Germany. Because, if the Germans were to act more along the lines of Great Britain, any french claim to leadership in Europe would be even more absurd than it is already.
Firstly, the idea of a "core Europe" isn't very smart. It might happen nevertheless, maybe as a means to keep Turkey outside the EU decision-making process. Still, a simple "no" to the Turkish membership bid would be a far preferable option (at least for the next 50-100 years or so).
But a socialist "core Europe" under French domination? That concept downright stinks. But as the example of Mr. Humbert at Airbus shows, there are still ways of keeping France in check.
"The French media always portrays America in the worst possible light, and most French people are totally brainwashed.
Where are the articles and news shows about the ever growing, ever more prosperous, and ever more REPUBLICAN, I might add, Black middle class?"
My comment had nothing to do with the French media.
There is no dispute that there is a black middle class in America, and in France.
My focus was on the worst neighborhoods in America and France, a comparison of the bottom of the bottom. It is there that the difference between the French and American approach to social solidarity is plainest.
Do you dispute that there are terribly ghettos in large American cities?
You seem to be arguing that there are not, and that the projects of Detroit of Washington D.C. are not really bad at all - indeed, to think that they are is to have succumbed to "French media propaganda".
I have been in these places, and they seem terrible to ME. That is not propaganda from Antenne 2 or anyone else.
When I compare with my own eyes the worst of the worst in both places, America's bottom is terrible and terrifying.
France is willing to spend more money so that its bottom is not like that. And it is not.
Please, there is no point in yet another reiteration of "America is great and France is a cesspool". America IS a great country: who can dispute that? France is not a cesspool, or people would leave it and not immigrate to it or make it the primary tourist destination in Europe.
I have been focusing on a structural issue, and the place where the difference between France and America, where France's system pays off, is at the very bottom rung of the socio-economic ladder. This comes at a tradeoff elsewhere in the society. America's system also has made tradeoffs. Nationalism seems to get in the way of frankly admitting these things and comparing the results.
Detroit and Cabrini Green and South Central Los Angeles do not go away simply because one talks about the rising black middle class. And they are not going away in the actual social world either. Americans are willing for those places to be like that, because to make them markedly better - to make them like tough blue collar working class neighborhoods - would cost far more money than Americans are willing to spend on that segment of society. That is the truth of it.
France spends the money on that segment, with the result that the bottom French neighborhoods are like other tough working class neighborhoods, but are not as bad as the worst ghettos of America.
The political process determines why each of those societies has chosen a different path, and there are good and bad points of either way.
It is not realistic to pretend that the French system has no good points and that the American has no bad. This is objectively untrue, and anyone who has travelled both countries experiences that directly.
Sunday is a day that people traditionally have off. Therefore, by having elections on Sunday, one is able to get the most voters, since work does not prevent them from voting. It makes sense.
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