Posted on 05/27/2005 4:24:01 AM PDT by MikeJ75
An Indiana appeals court must decide if a judge’s order prohibiting a nine-year-old from practicing his pagan beliefs will stand.
A Marion County judge issued what some are calling an "unusual" order a year ago in a divorce court. It prohibits the boy from being exposed to "non-mainstream" religious beliefs.
The ICLU took the case of Thomas Jones Jr. after a court divorce decree forbade him from exposing his son to his pagan beliefs. Jones says it's just not right for his boy not to be able to participate in his Wiccan practices and holidays.
“I don't understand why the court commissioner that oversaw the custody hearing put it in there. There's nothing within our belief structure or our ritual that would warrant this,” said Jones. “I don't want a judge to tell me what he will or won't be.”
Wicca is not a centralized, congregational-type religion but rather a belief system where its followers embrace nature, the earth, air, fire, water, and spirit. It's recognized by the pentagram symbol.
Jones believes the judge's decision might have been based on his son's educational environment. “It said there was concern because he went to a Catholic grade school there'd be some confusion.”
Religious disputes are not uncommon in divorce cases. But according to the ICLU, the judge’s order that forbids the boy from practicing his pagan beliefs could be a constitutional violation. As ICLU attorney Ken Falk puts it, the judge characterized the boy’s pagan beliefs as “non- mainstream.” Falk says it’s not up to the court to decide what constitutes “mainstream” religion. “Mainstream to you or I may not be mainstream to someone else.”
Military and Department of Correction documents recognize pagan worship, an indication of its constitutional protection.
Falk says the larger issue is that the state should not be telling parents how they or their children should worship. “This is their religion and I think the point of the first amendment is that it's not up to the government to question the wisdom or the rectitude of any religions practice,” said Falk.
Judge Cale Bradford, who put the order in the divorce decree, says he couldn't talk about the issue. It's now up to the Indiana Court of Appeals to determine if Jones is allowed to worship his beliefs with his son at his side.
What is the 'ICLU'?
Indiana Civil Libertys Union?
I'm totally against any religion that does not put Jesus Christ as Lord. However, it is totally against the foundation of this country to order someone to stop teaching a belief system. Futhermore, if you call wicca a religion then what about SEPARATION of church and state as the secular gov't and God haters love to deem constitutional?
You got it, it's Indiana's version of the ACLU.
Lynne Stewart is a terrorist supporter and a Democrat
I think I saw this Pagan thing in a movie once.
People Against Gooodness And Niceness.
Kill yourselves. Seriously. Do it now before you are enslaved.
Collectively you are too stupid of a culture to live on and inhabit this planet.
The world is laughing at your stupidity. Do you understand that?
So, if I practice Reformed Zoroastrian Buddhism, it becomes a mainstream religion, because I practice it. I think this attorney doesn't understand the definition of "mainstream." I wonder what else he doesn't understand.
I too feel that this is a dangerous precedent, the road to converting pagans isn't by legally banning them, something I fear all too soon could be done with non-watered-down christianity (IE churches that don't have amnesia over Sodom & Gamora), this is a dangerous slippery slope. The judge if concerned should ask a christian group to try to intervene after the case is finished not ban the father exercising his right to teach his child his own (if wacky) beleifs.
Thanks, Jacques.
No matter the judge's thought process on this, it appears to me that he has overstepped his authority.
If this judge can order parents not to teach their religion, then some other judge can order a Christian parent not to teach their religion.
American Christians should not support this ruling.
This is so clearly unconstitutional that it should be ignored, not appealed, and anyone who tries to enforce it should be told that they will be prosecuted under 18 USC 241, Conspiracy Against Rights. The judge should be prosecuted under the same statute.
"If this judge can order parents not to teach their religion, then some other judge can order a Christian parent not to teach their religion."
Wicca is not a religion. It's just a game played by raving moonbats.
And Islam?
"Collectively you are too stupid of a culture to live on and inhabit this planet. "
The world can laugh all they want. This is the same world that tries by the thousands to come to these shores each year. Our culture, which is made up of many cultures, has influencesdother, older cultures around the world. I have lived overseas and while the experience was enjoyable, it only proved to me that this country (with all its faults) is the greatest country on all the earth. So you can continue to be and expatriot. And also remember, America is not a monolithic thing, America is its people.
Not infrequently in divorce cases, decisions have to be made by the courts as to which (ha) parent has the right to determine the religious upbringing of the child. This is one of those inevitible problems of divorce. I am assuming here that the other parent has custody of the child, and hence the right to make this determination. I am also assuming that the other spouse is fairly open to the idea of exposing the child to religious beliefs within a certain framework, and thus would have no objection to "mainstream" religions. What the judge is determining here is not whether people have the right to raise their children as Wiccans, but rather whether the custodial spouse has the right to limit her child's exposure to Wiccan. Big difference.
When I was a judge I once had to decide a similar case. Two Catholic lawyers were arguing to a Catholic judge whether the child should be raised United Methodist or Free Methodist. Being a non-Feenian I resisted the temptation to say, "It doesn't make any difference. He's going to Hell anyway."
I thought that was People Against Goodness And Normalcy.
Just the facts.
= )
While I tend to agree with you, a person's religion is generally accepted to be what that person says it is. As an army chaplain, I'm certain that Wicca is in the manual of religions that the military hands out to its chaplains.
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