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To: savedbygrace
But software companies decided long ago to establish this squishy licensing thing. That makes the difference.

A license is simply a contract for services - you're paying for the service of having that software provided to you and available for your use. The taxi driver doesn't "sell" me a seat in his cab, really - I don't get to take a bucket seat home with me at the end of the ride, but if you try to take off without paying, you'll discover that the sale of services is very much an enforceable contract, and taking services without paying is considered theft ;)

Equally important is the question of damage and loss. Has anyone suffered any provable damage or loss?

That's not necessary for theft of services either. If I sneak into an empty movie theater, and don't deprive any paying customer of a seat, it's still theft of services, even though neither the theater nor the studio suffered any demonstrable loss beyond the loss of the sale to me. If I call a cab and tell him I want to go to the airport, and then jump out and run off without paying, it's still theft of services, even if he was going that way anyway and making an empty run to pick up someone else. The only thing necessary is to show that you received services to which you were not entitled - loss or harm isn't a necessary factor, although it's always nice if you can show direct loss, of course.

42 posted on 05/18/2005 4:23:20 PM PDT by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: general_re
A license is simply a contract for services

A license is not a contract. A contract may include a license. A license is, by definition, the granting of permission to do something that person would not normally be able to do (007, License to Kill).

The taxi driver doesn't "sell" me a seat in his cab, really

The taxi ride is an implied contract of services (a ride) in exchange for a valuable consideration (money).

45 posted on 05/18/2005 5:31:38 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: general_re
A license is simply a contract for services

I don't think that's correct. I think a license is a permit to use under the specified circumstances. The other examples are apples and oranges to software licenses.

If I sneak into an empty movie theater, and don't deprive any paying customer of a seat, it's still theft of services, even though neither the theater nor the studio suffered any demonstrable loss beyond the loss of the sale to me. If I call a cab and tell him I want to go to the airport, and then jump out and run off without paying, it's still theft of services,

The crime in the theatre example is trespassing. The taxicab example IS theft of services. Again, though, with a software license, the company is permitting you to use the software under the specified circumstances. They are not selling the bits or the disc. If you use the software contrary to the license, the violation is an infringement of the license agreement.

It took a while to reply to you because I wanted to do an internet search to bone up on the legal angle to all this. I couldn't find anything that indicates my position is wrong yet. If you find something, please write back. I'm persuaded by facts.

50 posted on 05/18/2005 6:52:13 PM PDT by savedbygrace ("No Monday morning quarterback has ever led a team to victory" GW Bush)
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