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Thoughtfulness is certainly a sign of love and caring.

But it can work both ways on the toilet seat.

Personally, I think every bathroom needs a urinal.

And, a kneeling pad wouldn't hurt unless hubby wants to clean up his own splatters.

But for some reason. bladder draining is so tied in to most men's concepts, constructs of masculinity, worth, control, independence etc. it is highly unlikely that most men can be requested, persuaded, convinced to change their bathroom habits very successfully.

I can agree that the Biblical notion of LOVE being sacrificial servant-hearted putting the other person first is the true form of Love. But how many men does anyone know like that when it comes to evidence in the bathroom? I'd bet it's less than 15%. Hope I'm wrong.

We could take a poll on this thread. Would be interesting though not tell us a lot about the overall population.

I suspect, also, that most men who's 'significant other' carps most shrilly about the toilet seat--most of those men could easily mention at least a similar annoying prickly, gritchy, insufferable thing the woman does.

At that point, it's . . . well . . . a p*ssing contest. Who's going to give in, give up control; 'lose' first. A pretty sick status of love between the two, it seems to me.

But, almost anyone can change even stone like water eventually. It may take some incredibly sacrificial servant-hearted behaviorS over a LONG period of time to effect much change in the other person. But it is likely to come--especially if one is behaving like Jesus. At, God starts adding to the pressure on the other person.

Also, in my experience and observation, when there's some really chronic irritants that are never changed, the odds are that the couple stopped listening to one another long ago and the pet peeves are sort of hallmarks to that silence, anger and resentment on mor substantive things. But the more substantive things are so volitile and huge that no one wants to overtly blow the relationship out of the water for whatever utilitarian reasons so the carping is limited to the seemingly minor things--which, too often, are not so minor but representative of serious discord. This is not always the case but far too often is.

One way to check on the health of a relationship is whether THE BOTTOM LINE of EACH SESSION OF INTERACTION--each conversation etc.--is the bottom line positive 5 times to one time negative. That is, do the partners leave the exchange AT THE LAST feeling positive about the exchange and communication for 5 interactions vs negative for one such interaction? If so, the relationship will likely endure. If it's more the opposite, the relationship will likely not endure short of some significant other factors. This is really a very critical measure on the health of a relationship.

BTW, for the men willing to do THE LOVING THING regarding splatters (given that sitting like a woman will hardly ever work in many homes for most men), the gardening knee pads cut in half and doubled using rubber cement--will do nicely.

While I'm on the topic of pet peeves in couples' relationships . . . Virtuallye very man I've ever known in counseling or otherwise needs 15-30 minutes on arriving home BEFORE being assaulted with much of anything and especially before being assaulted with a list of burning questions. He needs the time to unwind, collect his thoughts etc.

OK, so a quick hug and greeting on his walking in the door is in order for both sides--but not the inquisition nor the interrigation nor the venting, unloading or diarrhea of the mouth. I realize that many wives have been storing up all day and are fairly bursting with a long list of things to assault the man of the house with the second he walks through the portal. Bad move. Don't do it.

Now there are men who can do the unwinding on the drive home. There's the famous story of the fellow who walked in the front yard and put all his negatives, worries, etc. symbollically on the tree in the front yard before walking in the door. Thereby he gave his family his best and none of the debris from the day.

But for many men, the drive home only adds to their stress and dis-ease. They have nothing to offer but cold pricklies when they walk in the door. If the woman of the house dishes out further demands for listening and other expectations as well as a list of grievances or other negatives--well, the flash bonfire is all set-up for lighting.

Both partners COULD commit to themselves, their partner and to God--if nothing else for a wise investment in their own betterment, better homelife and healthier children--they could each commit to saying 5-7 positive things to their partner FIRST THING, before ever mentioning any negative anything. If that became more of a habit than the whining about toilet seats and the chronic gritching so common from so many female partners (though not limited to them in too many couples), THEN the home could really become much more of a delight to live in and come home to for all concerned.

BTW, SILENT anger is the most difficult to deal with and often leaks out all over and about the 'petty' things. Silent anger is almost a sure fire indication of eventual disillusion of the relationship. That doesn't mean that routine verbal assaults and dumping are wholesale better--that kind of caustic poison is no relationship insurance, for sure.

Most anger is better resisted at least initially--lain aside. Take a walk. Count to 10 or 100 twice. Do some exercise. Put yourself in the other person's skin for some minutes to hours before replying. Then decide that the major goal is not venting one's spleen but IN ENHANCING AND PRESERVING the relationship and the other person. Then state the anger constructively.

I feel angry when you _________________ takes responsibility for your feelings while leaving the other person responsibility for their behavior.

Incidentally, the liberal psychobabble and sociological hogwash fromt he pit of hell has left folks with the impression that feelings are god. They aren't.

Feelings can make tolerable servants but they make horrible slave drivers, masters. They can motivate a lot of actions good and bad. But as rulers of individuals, feelings are at best extremely hazardous. And too often, cries of "you made me feel . . ." end up as Hitlerian gestapo in their ruthless destructiveness on relationships--by those who've bought into the lie that they can accuse all others for their feelings in a kind of irresponsible extortionist blame game.

No one has the power to make you feel anything unless you give it to them. It's very human but counter productive and unnecessary to give lesser souls or even our intimate spouses such power over our own emotions. We can be centered in our own life values and priorities and determine to give those we love our best regardless.

Wellll, I pontificate enough.

Some folks will go on enjoying wetting each other down in their p*ssing contests regardless.

But some may be tired of getting smelly and wet and be looking for a different perspective and way out.