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To: liberallarry
You remind me of the Muslims who criticize the Israelis for wars or conquest while forgetting their own. From the Russian point of view they were only reasserting control over territories they lost at the end of WWI.

Here's a hint, Balts have NEVER been Russians, and fought to LIBERATE themselves from the Russians. Russia didn't just lose the Baltics, the Baltics fought and won their independance.

Your analogy is totally backward. The only wars of conquest in the last 400 years regarding the Baltics occured in 1940 and 1710, and the Russians were the invaders.

The Baltic states, or parts of them, had belonged to Russia for centuries prior to 1914. ...

Yes, starting in 1710 when Russia INVADED the Baltics. Over 100,000 died in Tallinn alone soon after.

But you digress

The Balts fought and won their independance.

Once again you are only interested in a time frame favorable to your position. ...

Gee, the time being circa 1945 and the place being those parts of the Earth that the Allies fought on, I don't think I'm stretching the point one iota.

But looking only at the aftermath of WWII there were border adjustments which favored the French over the Germans. ...

Regardless of the merits of these claims (which would require several threads of their own), the assertion of opportunistic Westerners gobbling up conquored lands is simple b.s.

So who's the asshat?

for a guy so ignorant of history that he wants to compare a 400 year Baltic struggle for independance with Muslim wars of conquest, I'd have to say you are.

54 posted on 05/15/2005 2:33:34 PM PDT by Smedley (I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt.)
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To: Smedley
Here's a hint, Balts have NEVER been Russians...

Here's another hint. I never thought or said they were. Imperial Russia wasn't called the prison-house of nations for nothing. But so what? You think the Russians of the time were the only nation which had captive minorities? You can't be that stupid, can you? Nor can you really believe that they thought their claim to the land by right of conquest was invalid, or do you?

...and fought to LIBERATE themselves from the Russians. Russia didn't just lose the Baltics, the Baltics fought and won their independance.

Russians lost WWI to the Germans. Otherwise, the Baltic states would never have gained independence. I'm not denying their efforts. I'm just being factual.

Your analogy is totally backward. The only wars of conquest in the last 400 years regarding the Baltics occured in 1940 and 1710, and the Russians were the invaders.

You misunderstand me. Perhaps I wasn't clear. The Russians felt they were reclaiming territory which rightfully belonged to them - had belonged to them for 200 years.

The bitter truth about humanity is that most nations and cultures live on lands which they forcibly took from others. After a period of time they feel its theirs.

Regardless of the merits of these claims (which would require several threads of their own), the assertion of opportunistic Westerners gobbling up conquored lands is simple b.s.

In the period during which the Czars gobbled up much of Eastern Europe and central Asia, Western nations gobbled up even more...including what is now the United States.

The attempt by Western powers to reclaim their colonial possessions after 1945 cannot be dismissed in such a cavalier fashion. Especially by someone gives such weight to a 200 or 400 year old claim to independence by some minor European ethnic groups.

for a guy so ignorant of history

My grasp of history is - at the very least - the equal of yours.

59 posted on 05/15/2005 2:59:06 PM PDT by liberallarry
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