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To: MamaTexan

What Constitution are you reading?

Ok, I've been loathe to chime in on this thread up until this point, but now I have to say something.

First of all, let's take the phrase "US soil" out of our vocabulary. It's not in the Constitution and doesn't have anything to do with this debate. Besides that, I'm not even sure how you get that US soil only means the District. Clearly, the Constitution states that the District will be the seat of the government, but it doesn't say much else.

Second, the purpose of the Amendment was clear. Up until the Civil War, there was a great deal of debate as to whether United States citizenship even existed. Certainly state citizenship existed, but not necessarily US citizenship. Even those that argued in favor of US citizenship claimed that it naturally flowed by virtue of a person's state citizenship; I am a citizen of Virginia; thus, I am also a citizen of the United States. The problem with this, from the amendment's framers' viewpoint, was that slave holding states did not consider blacks to be citizens. So, even if there WAS US citizenship (which no one really agreed on) blacks weren't US citizens because they weren't citizens of any states.

The 14th Amendment was to end this debate once and for all. It established United States citizenship, and states that any citizen born in any state (i.e., the United States) is a U.S. citizen. We know that this is the intention of Congress not only from the extended debate over the ratification of the 13th and 14th Amendments, but also from common sense--if what you are saying is true--that the United States is only the District, why does Congress need to pass a constitutional amendment? Congress has exclusive and total authority over the District; it didn't need to pass an amendment to do what you're saying--it just does it.

We know what Congress intended to do with this clause of Section 1. Unlike a lot of the rest of the Fourteenth Amendment, it's crystal clear. Besides the plain language of the amendment, which is hardly even arguable, we know from the debates what Congress was trying to do.

Like it or not, this is what the Amendment does. Any other reading is just plain wrong.


20 posted on 05/13/2005 9:34:44 AM PDT by Publius Valerius
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To: Publius Valerius

You err by ommision in your statement: "The 14th Amendment was to end this debate once and for all. It established United States citizenship, and states that any citizen born in any state (i.e., the United States) is a U.S. citizen."

What that provision actually says is, “All person born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, …”

Illegals - and their U.S. born kids - have refused to subject themselves to the jurisdiction of this country and should not be considered citizens. Send them all home.


36 posted on 05/13/2005 10:43:14 AM PDT by Manfred the Wonder Dawg (In all things give thanks, for this is the will of God for you in Christ Jesus.)
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To: Publius Valerius
What Constitution are you reading?

This one;
Article 1 Section 8, Clause 17:
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square)

NOT TO EXCEED TEN MILES SQUARE... the EXTENT of Federal jurisdiction (with the exception of the exercise of any enumerated power concerning the states *not* the people)

as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings

Properties purchased by the federal government (with the consent of the states) for military bases.

why does Congress need to pass a constitutional amendment?

1. Congress doesn't pass Amendments, the States do, and Congress verifies the process with ratification.

2. Because that's what a Republic IS! A government BY the people...no vote = no law. (And even a voted in law can't infringe an unalienable right)

Like it or not, this is what the Amendment does. Any other reading is just plain wrong.

Sorry, it the 'government has authority to do whatever it says it does' mentality is what GOT us where we are today.

The Constitution partially serves the same purpose as any state Constitution while also enumerating the VERY limited powers in areas where it has authority over the states. When it says 'citizen' it means the District of Columbia, when it says 'person', it means a resident of a state.

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
James Madison, concerning French refugees from San Domingo, 1794

Government, in my humble opinion, should be formed to secure and to enlarge the exercise of the natural rights of its members; and every government, which has not this in view, as its principal object, is not a government of the legitimate kind.
James Wilson, Lectures on Law, 1791

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others.
Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, Query 17, 1782

Now, I'm really not trying to tell you what to believe, it is a free country, after all:)

But I've been researching this for years, and I know for a fact that at least 3 generations of Americans have been mislead about the Constitution, what it IS, and what it CAN and consequently CANNOT do!

One thing it CANNOT do is assume a power it never possessed, or to alter any power it already had.

The 14th Amendment is a legalistic shell game. It gives the illusion of extending federal jurisdiction without actually doing so. All it truly does is reiterate what was ALREADY in the Constitution. (Lincoln was a lawyer, was he not?)

It MAY attempt to blend the two distinct types of law (natural law / positive law) that constitutes the "Republic" bequeathed to us by the Founders, but again, this is a legal impossibility since government has no authority (jurisdiction) to nullify our enumerated right to a Republican form of government.

Such an act would nullify the entire *legally binding contract* of the Constitution itself.

If men through fear, fraud or mistake, should in terms renounce and give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the great end of society, would absolutely vacate such renunciation; the right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of Man to alienate this gift, and voluntarily become a slave.
John Adams, Rights of the Colonists, 1772

41 posted on 05/13/2005 12:03:30 PM PDT by MamaTexan (I am not a legal entity, nor am I a *person* as defined and/or created by 'law'!!)
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