to #69:
“At most the provider of labor collects the tax from the purchaser at time of sale, for remittence to government,”
And that’s the rub. The only way that the government will turn me into their tax collector, IS at the barrel of a gun, heh he.
“So? You figure taxes collected from you on the basis of property owned or used is in some way any better?”
Huh? Didn’t I already say that ANY tax that prohibits true ownership is criminal?
“Sorry, that's just the way it is. Couple that with the fact that the constitution provides direct authority”
Just the way it is? Well why are we talking about changing the system at all then? I was actually under the impression that we were all here talking about the way it “should be” because the “way it is” sucks..? And also, with your impressive archival knowledge of the federalist papers, founder intents and constitution et al, you should know that income tax was flatly illegal for the better part of our nations history. Actually, it was found unconstitutional a few times before 1913. We have only been drowning in this terrible system for 85 years or so.
“In fact under the current income/payroll system that taxes both business and individuals. In fact many individuals pay at the front when wages are earned, then again through embedded tax burdens in the price of goods and services that are paying for:”
You are preaching to the choir here. I already know how ridiculous the standing system is. That is why I want to return to something closer to the founders vision. Your losing me here when trying to establish that the current state of affairs is acceptable and reasonable.
What really gets me is that we are basically on the same team here, in wanting to see the current system die a fiery death. I just think that the Feds will screw up the sales tax system, six ways to Sunday before it gets implemented and they will never give up any level of control on commerce. They probably won’t even give up the income tax; just make it real low… for a while anyway.
I just do not want to have to have a microchip in my hand to buy/trade things because the poor poor federal government is having “compliance” problems with the new system. Do you see that point or just like to argue?
And that’s the rub. The only way that the government will turn me into their tax collector, IS at the barrel of a gun, heh he.
That's fine, simple alternatives exist to being a retail vendor under a NRST, sell to businesses, be employed by a business, invest to the point where returns are sufficient to support yourself, or a combination of all the above.
Huh? Didn’t I already say that ANY tax that prohibits true ownership is criminal?
In otherwords you object to a tax on any product, e.g any of the exises and tariffs ,that have been common thoughout our history non-payment of any of which would deny you the benefit of ownership of the taxed items.
Well why are we talking about changing the system at all then?
Primarily because the current income/payroll tax system severly retards production and the economic growth, discourages savings and investment, deeply intrudes into the financial privacy of the citizen, has as one of it main claims to glory is its capacity for social and economic engineering, ...
I was actually under the impression that we were all here talking about the way it “should be” because the “way it is” sucks..?
I'm primarily interest in what is within the realm of achievable over mere hopes that lack any feasible method of getting there.
Your losing me here when trying to establish that the current state of affairs is acceptable and reasonable.
Hardly holding a thing to be constitutional is in anyway associated with its being practical, acceptable or a reasonable thing to do. What is legal to do, has little to do with any of the above.
I just think that the Feds will screw up the sales tax system, six ways to Sunday before it gets implemented and they will never give up any level of control on commerce. They probably won’t even give up the income tax; just make it real low… for a while anyway.
Worrying over mightbes to the extent of not acting in supporting legislation that clearly does none of what you express as your fear is just another way of accepting status quo.
Conditions are never just right. People who delay action until all factors are favorable do nothing.
William Feather
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
--Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
I just do not want to have to have a microchip in my hand to buy/trade things because the poor poor federal government is having “compliance” problems with the new system.
Fine, neither does anyone else that I know of. Preventing that however is what the reponsibility of being a participating citizen in this country and the citizen's obligation of "eternal vigilance" is all about.
Do you see that point or just like to argue?
Don't see a valid point in your worries as we would already have the conditions your fear expresses were it a politically feasible to achieve it by the government as it is constituted in this nation. From my perspective that fear ranks mostly in the realm of excess paranoia, especially where it may prevent instituting a substantive change away from taxation of income which has clearly established and proved its known capacity for economic and social mischief.