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To: paulmartin; mlc9852

The message in post #2 has nothing to do with the relative intelligence of Chinese vs. American children. What it is saying is that people like those on that Kansas school board are attempting to handicap budding young scientists in the name of religion, and that handicapping will help China (and other countries) surpass us in science.

The fact is, that evolution is a multifaceted theory that covers just about every facet of biology. Trying to conduct meaningful science without taking into account evolutionary principles would be nearly impossible. Let's take a simple scenario--I am studying a particular protein made by bacteria A. I'm wondering if bacteria B, which causes an illness similar to that caused by bacteria A, has a corresponding protein with a similar function. Right here, I'm running into problems--because, without taking evolution into account, I can't even wonder about similarities between bacteria A and bacteria B. I haven't even gotten to the technical aspects of how similar protein bA and protein bB are, or how I'm going to show they have similar functions--because creation or ID (whatever you want to call it) doesn't even allow the questions to be asked.

As far as I'm concerned, it is creationists who have constructed the world view that God cannot exist if life evolved on this Earth who have a problem, not scientists. We're merely observers.

Does it shake your faith that geologists have never found evidence of pits where evil souls are being tormented by demons for their sins on Earth? Or that astronomers have never seen anything up there in the big wide sky that resembles a paradise populated by angels? Why just pick on biology?


36 posted on 05/10/2005 5:21:48 AM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: exDemMom
"how I'm going to show they have similar functions--because creation or ID (whatever you want to call it) doesn't even allow the questions to be asked."

Surely you know that isn't true. They want MORE questions asked, not fewer. And I doubt anyone questions mutation or adaptation as it relates to the theory of evolution. They just want the problems with the theory of speciation, etc. to be presented. How is more knowledge dangerous? Seems they want the students to be able to make up their own minds after reviewing different aspects of evidence. That can only be a good thing.

As for educating budding scientists, if you have children in public school, you must know the theory of evolution isn't thoroughly explored at the high school level anyway. That normally comes in college-level classes.
40 posted on 05/10/2005 5:36:39 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: exDemMom
Why just pick on biology?

You must be new to these discussions. Geology would be on the list if it were taught in high school, as would astronomy.

Physics is already on the list. schools will have to entertain all kinds of speculation about the variable speed of light and rate of radioactive decay.

In chemistry we would teach that the unguided assembly of proteins is not merely an unsolved problem, but an absolute impossibility.

In computer science we would teach that feedback cannot be a source of information.

50 posted on 05/10/2005 5:56:09 AM PDT by js1138 (e unum pluribus)
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To: exDemMom
Or that astronomers have never seen anything up there in the big wide sky that resembles a paradise populated by angels?

Shhh... big secret.

68 posted on 05/10/2005 6:38:07 AM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: exDemMom
Actually the reverse of your post is true. It is you that are excluding information by your prejudice. St. Augustine walked along the beach and saw a little boy scooping up the ocean in a sea shell. He compared this to our ability to understand the universe in it's totality. All we have is a sea shell's worth.
Also, there is a little switch here in the argument I see on all these evolution pings. ID does not necessarily equal creationism. That is something put forward by the keepers of the evolution dogma in an effort to dismiss any challenge.
If you like, here is a simple scenario. Next Wednesday the Vulcans land because the last time they were here they left their DNA test tube by mistake and now the whole planet is overrun with life. Now, a little less silly, seeding life by purpose or accident by exploring species doesn't involve "God", or "god" as the atheists like to say. But could that explain the origin of complex species? No? What about the thought that bacteria survived on our missions to Mars and that they might survive there?
But let's go back, the only questions not being allowed to be asked are by evolutionists.

As for your final silly paragraph it shows only your lack of knowledge about religion. I would say I am a strong creationist and Catholic. Yet I do believe the world is round. I do believe in evolution (It is hard not to. I had a sheltie growing up, then a bassett hound, now an English Mastff. All three are examples of the evolution of a species. By intelligent design of course:). People that believe are not superstitious ignorant people. We just couple wisdom with knowledge. Did you know the person who discovered the big bang was a Jesuit priest? I just threw that in for grins. No, Heaven isn't around the rings of Saturn any more than hell is just below the mantle.
Read Chronic Losers posts on this thread. He has the most articulate analysis I have read on these threads. When I have more time I am going to print this off. His posts might help you. Finally, for all of you out of staters that think we all live on farms.....well, I do but that isn't the point, Johnson County in Eastern Kansas has roughly the same population as the entire state of Vermont. Just in one county! So there.
355 posted on 05/10/2005 12:07:06 PM PDT by IrishCatholic (No local communist or socialist party chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing.)
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