Avian Flu Surveillance Project

Various ^ | May 9, 2005 | Vanity

[Dog Gone]

Some folks suggested that we begin a thread similar to the Marsburg Surveillance Project for monitoring developments regarding Avian Flu.

The purpose is to have an extended thread where those interested can post articles and comments as this story unfolds.

If we're lucky, the story and this thread will fade away.

[2ndreconmarine]

There seems to be a significant controversy over whether most resveratrol supplements are worth a darn.

Perhaps, however the Avian Influenza Bird Flu Information summary and the referenced ProMed articles indicate that Resveratrol in supplement form is more stable:

"Resveratrol supplements are relatively inexpensive, are more stable than wine and is available in liquid form for absorption in the mouth. No toxic effects noted. (Pubmed PMID 1583880, 12817628, 15985724) "

[2ndreconmarine]

If you do a Google search for "suppression TNF alpha synthesis Cat's claw cytokine", you will find reference to some studies that conclude that Cat's Claw is affective at suppressing TNF-alpha synthesis, hence reducing cytokine storms.

Indeed it is. It is also listed on the Summary. MOreover, there are ProMed articles supporting this. The problem that I had with Cat's Claw was one of the side effects, to wit:

"Children and pregnant women are to avoid. Has a potentially damaging effect on the DNA of proliferating cells (cancers, foetuses, growing children)"

My rationale is that there are several items that work here, I don't need each and every one. However, your idea is equally valid.

[2ndreconmarine]

Let me go a little further and state that nobody here is prescribing.

I couldn't agree more. None of us are physicians and the available literature is pretty sparse.

These are well-known substances that have had recent research showing that they MAY be helpful in case of various viral infection. No research has been done on any of them with H5N1 patients, to the best of my knowledge.

You are certainly correct: there is no direct, clinical tests with any of these substances. However, there is pretty good research in the open literature that makes a strong case. In particular, there are two sets of published results:

1. Studies that show that H5N1 produce a cytokine storm with at least 3 specific proteins: TNF-a, IP-10, and IL-6.
2. Studies that show, demonstrably and clinically, that these substances (with the exception of NAC and Sambucol) do reduce those specific cytokines.

However, I certainly acknowledge that there is a good deal of uncertainty with this. Which leads me to the clearly scientific conclusion:

I am going to shotgun this. These things are basically harmless in modest quantities. I will take them because they do no measureable harm. One or several of them may be helpful. Using several all at once is simple statistics: it improves the odds. Finally, since there are not too many other alternatives, this makes sense. I will of course pursue parallel strategies if necessary: isolation and Tamiflu prescription (if I can get it).

[Judith Anne]

I am going to shotgun this. These things are basically harmless in modest quantities. I will take them because they do no measureable harm. One or several of them may be helpful. Using several all at once is simple statistics: it improves the odds. Finally, since there are not too many other alternatives, this makes sense.

That's the only viable strategy I can see. Again, well done.

[steve86]

My general experience with herbal remedies (NOT homeopathic ones) is that the herb does provides efficacy of the sort attributed to it, but the effect is sometimes rather weak (compared to prescription drugs).

There are exceptions on both sides, such as the positive effect noted by at least two forum people of unconcentrated turmeric on RA and conversely the almost total repudiation echinacea has had recently with respect to action against the common cold virus (rhinovirus). (I continue to suspect that echinacea harvested and prepared the North American Indian way would be more effective).

In light of the weakish activity of many herbs, the double or triple barreled shotgun approach might be an effective one, assuming the user diligently researches possible interactions.

With many herbs, I have come to see that GI absorption is a real issue. One has to be careful when skimming the abstracts of research reports to ensure that the effect noted isn't solely an in vitro one. (I am not referring to any particular study mentioned in this thread.)

At the same time, when you improve absorption with a natural substance like piperine or a drug like probenecid, you have to be very careful not to inadvertently increase the absorption of other drugs taken concurrently.

Those are just some things I've been thinking about.

[Judith Anne]

Thanks, Bear. Good points.

[steve86]

I wanted to add one minor point in a practical vein. If you are collecting herbs to combat influenza, be sure to "try them out" before they're needed for the real thing. This is needed to check for undesirable reactions, such as the bleeding episode (worsened due to curcumin) we had the other day. You don't need surprise side effects when your body is already fighting H5N1.

Many people intend to take the herbs partly as a preventive measure: in that case your body will already have plenty of experience with the herbs when TSHTF.

[Oorang]

Nov 29, 2005 6:21 pm US/Pacific

Weak Strain Of Bird Flu Found At Sun Valley Farm

(CBS) SUN VALLEY (California) Japanese quails suffering from a low pathogenic strain of bird flu were discovered in a Sun Valley quail farm.

The Bureau of Humane Law Enforcement, a non-governmental, nonprofit organization devoted to defending animals, began investigating conditions at the now-defunct L.A. Quail Farm earlier this year.

The agency served a warrant at the farm and discovered the quails living in unsanitary conditions with a multitude of illnesses.

All the animals were seized on Nov. 12 and were tested.

The bureau’s veterinarian determined many of the birds had a variety of diseases, fast-moving respiratory ailments, infections, injuries and lesions. Most disturbing was the diagnosis of a low pathogenic strain of avian influenza among the quails, which had been raised and kept at the facility.

The birds had been raised for human consumption

http://cbs2.com/topstories/local_story_333212149.html

[Judith Anne]

I can't recall if we've discussed it much on this thread or not, but they are using LPAI-H5N1 and HPAI-H5N1. These two stand for:

Low Pathogen Avian Influenza H5N1

High Pathogen Avian Influenza H5N1

Supposedly LP-H5N1 is a milder infection, and HP-H5N1 is the one that kills half the people who get it. I know little more about it than that, just that I have read about this differentiation. I have no idea what the implications are for vaccines--literally, I've just recently read about the split.

Anyway....

[Oorang]

The ducks they found near the chicken farm in Chilliwack, British Columbia had the LP version. Of course they said nothing to worry about but they did cull 65,000 chickens.

I just don't like hearing even the LPH5N1 is so near; California or B.C. Yikes.

[steve86]

No medium version?

Or is that the 2006 model?

[Judith Anne]

The ducks they found near the chicken farm in Chilliwack, British Columbia had the LP version. Of course they said nothing to worry about but they did cull 65,000 chickens

Just to be on the safe side, no doubt....

[Judith Anne]

You would think that if there really is such a differentiation (maybe there is, I haven't read enough to know) in two such similar viruses, that the LP version might offer some immunity against the HP version...if they're POSITIVE it's the LP version, why not just leave it alone?

I honestly know nothing about this; I can't help speculating, and it's worth exactly nothing. I'm going to see what information I can find.

[Judith Anne]

Okay, here is a link to a Recombinomics article.

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11190503/H5N1_LPAI_Manitoba.html

It's from November 19th. I am REALLY getting behind...

---

Here are some relevant paragraphs from the article:

Canadian scientists who have studied big chunks of the genetic code of the two proteins on the surface of the Manitoba H5N1 viruses have confirmed these viruses are from the family of North American H5N1 viruses, not the strains circulating in Southeast Asia.

North American H5N1 viruses have so far proven to be much milder viruses than their distant Asian cousins, avian influenza experts say.

(snip)

Because of the size differences between HPAI and LPAI HA and NA genes, the two types of sequences can be easily distinguished one the basis of size. Thus, appropriate inserts can be run on gels to immediately determine detectable HPAI inserts in HA and NA. Sequencing could then be used to verify that larger HA inserts or smaller NA inserts contained sequences that matched the published sequences for HPAI H5N1.

Instead Canada merely proved that two H5 positive birds contained LPAI H5N1, which doesn't address the presence or absence of H5N1 HPAI in any of the H5 positive birds, including those with LPAI H5N1.

---

I consider this information reliable.

[little jeremiah]

In the next day or two I'm going to put together information about herbs I am familiar with, for either strengthening the body's resistence to illness or dealing with symptoms. Most of the herbs I've taken; in fact, recently I got a flu-like illness, took a formula we put together, and my illness was very mild (which is not usual).

I'll post it on the Preparedness thread. I prefer whole, powdered herbs to any kind of extracts or concentrates. Nature includes all kinds of things in herbs that may not be considered "active ingredients" but they act together in concert, and help in ways that perhaps science hasn't bothered to figure out.

I've also noticed, with herbs, that taking a tiny bit once or twice doesn't do any good. They have to be taken consistently several times a day.

In the formulas we use (we put them together) we always include some catalyst herbs - to help digest the herbs themselves, speed their absorption. Spices usually. If anyone particularly wants to be pung when I post it, ping me!

[Judith Anne]

If anyone particularly wants to be pung when I post it, ping me!

Yes please, ROFL!

[little jeremiah]

Okay, I'll pingify you!

[steve86]

Please ping me especially if you discuss the catalyst herbs. I'm not familiar with those other than piperine.

[little jeremiah]

Will do.

[little jeremiah]

I'm posting some stuff we put together about immune system strengthening and symptom relief on the Avian Preparedness thread. If you read it (it's long) and have ?s just ping or freepmail me. Some of the herbs will no doubt be very unfamiliar.

Link to Preparedness thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1453571/posts?q=1&&page=201