Posted on 05/09/2005 5:30:34 AM PDT by tbritton
Schiavo findings won't be rushed
Despite conflicting calls for thoroughness and quick results, Jon Thogmartin won't let appeals from the public force his hand.
LARGO - People around the world have talked about the life and death of Terri Schiavo, but Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Jon Thogmartin will get the last word.
For the past month, he has been working on her autopsy. She has taken over his office and consumed his working hours. He appeared for an interview in blue scrubs, looking every bit the wiry medical examiner with his bald head and tiny wire-rimmed glasses.
"That's her and that's her," he says, pointing to piles of documents and boxes of slides stacked all over his office.
..
Thogmartin, 41, knows Schiavo's autopsy will probably be the most publicized of his career. He won't talk about it until he is done and estimates it will be two or three more weeks.
He has received hundreds of letters and e-mails about the brain-damaged woman who died March 31, 13 days after her feeding tube was removed. Many ask him to look for signs she wasn't brain-dead or signs of abuse, among the allegations made during the protracted battle between her parents and her husband over whether to keep her alive.
"They are of no consequence to me," says Thogmartin of the letters.
The lively Texan, publicity shy and fiercely protective of his wife's and child's privacy, is known for doing everything by the book. He denied requests from Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and her husband, Michael Schiavo, to allow their own pathologists to observe the autopsy.
"It is routine in cases of criminal importance to not allow any biased pathology advocates in the morgue," he said. "I'm the independent pathologist."
(Excerpt) Read more at sptimes.com ...
I don't think there is a whole lot of sainthood that can be placed on Michael Schiavo. Probably none. But coming from a religious perspecitve, I do find it funny the amount of information that is not presented by the Schindlers that may support a Michael position. For example the civil suit on malpractice and those findings and rulings. Those point to an ongoing eating problem. One physician settled, the other jury found Terri complicit in causing her condition. Why is there denial about Terri's complicity when in fact it was determined in a court she had some?
The right to lifers seem to find the appropriate scriture when defending their position. But when it comes to the other aspects of scripture that can be used, such as the examples of what I have presented, then suddenly thsoe scriptures are misused or misapplied. I ask for your input for how the scriptures I used are misapplied. So far I get noise and accusations instead of explantion.
As I stated in another response to another poster, there are many stakeholders in all this and how to balance all that is a virtually impossible task. Yet, the right to life crowd seems to believe balance is achieved only when the scales bottom out in their favor. It's a zero sum game. Yes we're dealing with life, but we're also dealing with civilization as a hole.
All I can say is if I was waiting on the cavalry to save me in Pinellas Park, then they that cavalry feel very short. They sent their symbolic martyrs, they used their children to be used by the hated media, but they never did anything to stop what was always presented as murder.
I don't believe it was murder. But there are others who do. I can appreciate that. And I can admit that I can be wrong. But the word murder is more used to be inciteful. It's used more to arouse emotion than to present fact. I frankly have a hard time balancing the marvels of medical advances and when it's time to let go. But if those who believed she was murdered and they were in Pinellas Park, then they watched and did nothing to prevent that murder. For 13 days they watched, and watched, and watched and watched...........and never once attempted in any serious manner to moisten parched lips. For 13 days after the tube was removed they stood, if they were able, and watched and watched and wathced and watched. Many went to Pinellas Park using Matthew 25:35 as their basis for going. No one fulfilled that. No one. No one took that serious enough. Oh, pre-arranged symbolism was done. Big whoop.
In my opinion, everyone who went to Pinellas Park and claimed Terri was murdered and did nothing to stop that murder, then they have the same blood on their hands as those they accuse of murder. Frankly more so, because they supposedly represented the foundation of their claim.
There will never be an investigation that will satisfy those who have the belief that the fix is in as long as the conclusion doesn't support their means. Never.
It really is silly to read more into what one posts than is there.
I pointed out the issue was presented as more than mere rumor as was erroneously posited earlier in the thread. In addition, the point on Carpenter was not that her condition was known or unknown to family or friends, but that the knowledge being known amongst such does not necessarily stop the course of the behavior/condition. I haven't argued that Schiavo in fact suffered such a condition.
Yet if one weren't being performed there would be outrage about that.
Thank you joes... for saying something I am unable to put into words. Great points and post. I couldn't have said it better or agree more with you. I simply speak off the cuff.. with things I hear and sometimes dont substantiate my arguement. You have done that for me here.
regardless of what one thinks about this case, IMO it's apparent there is a "death culture" (kevorkian, felos, et al) with an agenda that should be strongly opposed.
The cremation of her took place almost to the minute of the legal requirement of a minimum of 48 hours after the autopsy. Certainly it is possible to miss something in the exam or a clue of a possible finding might be inconclusive.
Having a body to go back to would come in handy for further samples. Exhumations are done all the time for that very purpose. The rush to cremate her as fast as possible that law will allow, under these circumstances, seem unusual to me, imo.
Dr. Wecht has been known to change his mind. Go back to the Vince Foster days.
I ask you candidly what you are calling for in the next Terri case? People like you are quick to condemn violence against abortuaries as not in keeping with pro-life decorum, yet you imply violence was not used in Florida and therefore pro-lifers are hypocrites. I also note that you sling the term 'pro-lifers' around in a fashion that indicates you aren't pro-life (for whatever excuse or denial you'll now offer) and therefore feel free to toss in condescension and ridicule at those who claim the banner of pro-life but don't risk taking life (and that's what is always possible when violent overthrow of power structures occurs) in order to 'solve the injustice'. That makes you an agitprop, not a serious debater of facts and evidence.
I'm wondering what is your hidden agenda for this condescension and agitating for violence. [That's your cue to be typically dishonest and claim you're not calling for violence in a Terri type case. And that's your cue to now dissemble and evade. We will enjoy your clintonesque replies knowing you show a hidden agenda at work and a disdain for pro-life peaceful action.]
The third party would have been a representative of the Shindlers - then and only then would the autopsy be out of the range of being suspect. All of this could have been avoided if they let the Shindlers have a representative to "watch". Why make it closed to the other side. Why I ask you did they not want anyone to observe - that in itself is suspect.
As I have stated, I have never once suggested anything violent. Never. Of course, my dishonesty has become evident. Sheesh!
But seriously, you folks seem to have all the answers, so why not answer the question you posed yourself? In addition, put forward what was truly attempted and maybe you will have touched on my thoughts. Other than the symbolic gestures, nothing that I know of was done. And please, I'm not discounting the oceans of prayer put forth. But there was not one person there that put themselves at risk to help Terri. Is that heroic? Don't you admit, Terri needed a hero? Not someone going forth armed or militia men blazing guns.
But I can also say that you have not answered the questions I posed to another person regarding the scriptures that I have offerred. I've seen your writings in other threads with regard to religion. You are quite knowledgeable. But you haven't answered the questions I forwarded.
I guess since you bring it up, since I'm against violence at abortuaries, are you for it?
As for me implying violence, you clearly are inferring what I have not implied.
I don't knock the notion of pro-life. It's quite noble. But I do knock those that have made it a twisted vulgarity. Many of the out front pro-lifers have made it a twisted vulgarity. They have co-opted it and have made themselves the Jesse Jacksons of the pro life movement. My contempt is not for the genuinely concerned pro lifers. My contempt is for those people.
Any representative other than a luck of the draw representative of the Schindlers would be beholden to them. No autopsy is probably ever completely flawless. And any flaw would be highlighted as proof the autopsy was corrupt.
A flaw is not corruption. Corrupt is when someone hides the facts - without a witness there is no telling. At least if they would have allowed a witness the possibility of corruption becomes insignificant, especaially if the witness is from the other side. So I ask you again - why did they not allow a witness? I will repeat - that in and of itself shows signs that things were not on the up and up.
Look no further than the medical insurance/health management conglomerate.
They don't want to pay to keep millions of old people in long term care facilities. Get the average length of stay in the 'hospice' down from 6 months to 6 weeks.
Oh my! I forgot about Randal Terry. He wasn't even in my commentary.
"Dr Wecht, a very respected forensic doctor, made a request to observe the autopsy. I find it very strange that he was he denied. Dr Wecht's experience would have given the autopsy some much needed credibility. "
I agree totally. However, I wish there was not need for this autopsy anyway. It's just like some Darkside invaded. It's all warped and so very wrong.
"You will hear the Terri-haters say hundreds of times..."
Yes, it's expected. Thanks for the update though.
I figure the autopsy is worthless.
Oh stop that, that's a load of BS and you know it.
The autopsy is anything BUT open and honest to the public.
When the ME refused anyone to observe that left the door open for doubts. But I assure you even had there been an observer, I would feel exactly as I do now. An autopsy can not prove a PVS. It's moot.
Michael Schiavo is a horrid awful man whose hatred showed in every action he took after he received the settlement check. All he was concerned about was the money and getting Terri to die and going so far as to prevent her parents from visiting her, having them have to PAY to visit her, having a DNR order on her, and for years she sat in a dark room in that freakin hospice. Totally horendous that this was allowed to happen. Someone as seriously injured as Terri needed a lot of time and continued Therapy. She reacted to her Mother and those who loved her. This was not someone in a deep coma who was kept alive on a breathing machine. There was hope and from the videos I saw, she was there and it makes it just that much more horrific that this BEAST would decide... DEATH rather than divorce her and go on with his life. He is a criminal in my view. He should be sittin in a cell with Scot Peterson, instead of enjoying life on Terri's dime.
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