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To: SaltyJoe
I doubt that Soviets had a genuine love for Jews, but would Soviets really bind themselves to Arabs and Egyptians...

The Russian Revolution was mostly a Jewish Revolution and retribution for decades of pogroms promoted by the Czar. The Red Russians, including ethnic-only Bolshevik Jews, feared/hated the Zionists, as they did the Arabs. The Zionists could ruin the creation of a secular Jewish socialist state. That's the connection and the distinction. As well, the opposite happened in America after WWII. The USA essentially became "Zionist" by being pro-Israel in its foreign policy.

I'm guessing, but I think that Soviets hated Nazis so thoroughly, that hating Jews would have put them on the same level as Nazis.

Ethnic Jews held high offices in the Russian Communist Party and the Russian military. Since the mass starvation of the Ukraine by Stalin is what gave Hitler the idea that a state could exterminate its undesirable populations, as long as it did not get caught. I don't think that comparisons with the Nazi's worried the Russians very much.

Stalin's successors were never true believers in Communism. They were criminals who thought like criminals. I think that Soviet interest in the Middle East was to raise money by selling weapons.

I agree. Those after Stalin continued the arms enterprise and endeavored to keep Israel as small as possible because its Zionist existence was a threat to the Soviet Union.

Perhaps a notable statistic: were there any ex-Russian weapons dealers that sought and won asylum in Israel?

Is the Pope Catholic!

28 posted on 05/07/2005 9:46:10 AM PDT by elbucko (California, no guns for the citizens, no sons for the military.)
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To: elbucko
"The Zionists could ruin the creation of a secular Jewish socialist state."

My gentile self being the goy I am, I'm far removed from understanding Jewish and Israel's politics. I've naively wondered that the infighting among Jews over Israel was because someone grabbed hold of the Israeli state before the other Jews had a say or any involvement. (Sort of like the musical child rap group Criss Cross wearing their baggy clothes backwards wasn't so original from other child wrapper groups, but Criss Cross got all the credit from their hit video "Jump"). Sorry to belittle the jealousy image, but that's how far removed I am from understanding Israel.

Thus, my only real understanding of Israel is what in-fighting I see in the Catholic Church (those who hold the seat, and those on the outside trying to manipulate the Vatican...or keep Vatican influence as small as possible).

---
Please also examine German experience in the Bohr Wars in South Africa.

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&q=south+africa+bohr+war+concentration+camp

The only way the British could subdue the South African guerrillas was to force the Boers' (Dutch word for farmer, today called Afrikaners) women and children into concentration camps.

British tactics of using a large regular army met with disastrous results against the lightly armed and fast moving Boers. The farmers were also crack shots sniping with high powered rifles (German Mausers with smokeless ammunition). Their concealed fire easily out distanced the British army rifles, and their quick ambushes and evasion allowed them to escape before the British could counter attack.

http://histclo.hispeed.com/essay/war/war-boer.html

The movie, "Breaker Morant" glosses over some of these details. Though the British Empire employed Australians and New Zealanders with great effectiveness against guerrilla tactics, it was the concentration camps that eventual broke the Boer's will to fight.

England gained access to South Africa's immense resources while averting war with Germany in Europe, or German involvement in South Africa.

Other noteworthy trivia: Winston Churchill was captured during the Boer War, and he escaped. He was so impressed with the Boers, that during World War 2, he modeled the "Commando" units after the same fighting style of the Boer resistance.
31 posted on 05/07/2005 11:39:27 AM PDT by SaltyJoe (May the Blessed Virgin guide mankind's effort to reaching a Just and lasting Peace.)
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