Posted on 05/05/2005 4:47:23 AM PDT by Tolik
bump for later
Rock and Roll. Invented by Southern blacks and whites as a mix of black R&B (which grew out of African musical styles) and hillbilly country music (which was very British-Appaliacian), then exported to and in many ways refined and perfected in Britain!
There are even quite a few impressive English rappers these days....amazing how the cultures are still influencing each other.
Sowell's hair sure has gotten grey.
At Adams Eggs on Fortification St.?
"Translation: "It's okay for Southern whites [which I am, btw] to behave like ghetto Blacks because that is their quaint culture; but Blacks who behave like rednecks are leftist enemies of all that is good and pure in the world."
Somebody sounds like a liberal here, but it ain't Mr. Sowell."
I don't say it's ok for Southern whites to behave like ghetto blacks. I've noticed very few that do where I live.
what I object to is the premise that the Scotch-Irish immigrants had little interest in education. What about all the early colleges in the South? Many there were very well educated and probably more (percentage-wise) than in the North. Many in the North were recent immigrants and Irish. His whole arguement is so bogus that it reminds one of a liberal. I know of absolutely no blacks that behave like rednecks. Obviously his idea of rednecks is very different than mine.
What do you think of this?
It's said the Irish settled much of the South, especially the Protestant Scots-Irish from Ulster. They had a reputation as pioneers and as brawlers. The other group was the Borderers who lived in Northern Britain and Southern Scotland. Like Northern Ireland it was a comparatively wild and remote part of Britain in the 18th century. The two groups blended together on the American frontier.
Probably it wasn't so much that such people were different from the English. You could see a lot of the same characteristics in Dickens' London or in early Australia. But the Ulstermen and the Borderers were further away from cities and the very settled and controlled life of East Anglia, where many New England Puritans came from.
David Hackett Fischer wrote a lot about this topic in his book Albion's Seed. It's worth a look. One thing he says is that the Gaelic-speaking Highlanders who settled in the Cape Fear area didn't mingle well with the Lowland Scots or the Scots-Irish. They had been on opposite sides of some conflicts in the old country, and didn't trust each other. The Highlanders had had their rebellions and been crushed mercilessly. Thus they tended to be more obedient and law abiding in the New World.
I guess you haven't witnessed a lot of what he says when he's not being interviewed then.
PS, I'm not a Tiger basher, just a knowledgable golf observer.
I didn't pick any of that up in this article. But if you have read many of his books, maybe you should give him the benefit of the doubt and read the book before you settle on that conclusion. Just my opinion.
I will not argue with you about schools in the North vs. schools in the South, since each region had its educated and illiterate citizens. Neither will I be so forward as to contradict you when you say you know of no Southern whites who behave like ghetto Blacks, since you know your own experience.
However, I do wish to insist that many of the alleged "characteristics" of each of those two cultures is shared by the other, howevermuch the members don't want to admit it, and each is hypocritical when it excuses or praises in itself what it condemns in the other. Among these characteristics is the violence associated with a sort of "code of honor." This is illustrated by the code duello of the Southern aristocracy, the blood feuds of the poor whites of the mountains, and the violence of the ghetto between gangs or gangster rap clans. Another commonality is the language. "Black English" most certainly does not come from Africa (most certainly not the Anglo-Saxon obscenities which liberals like to think of as so "quaint" and "revolutionary" and "African"). "Ax" is Chaucerian Middle English, and the use of the infinitive of the verb to be was characteristics of certain British Isles dialects as well as of "hillbillies" and "pirates" (to this day the verb "ate" is often pronounced "et" in the British Isles). Even the omitted "r" in such words as "bu(r)st" has its origin in the aristocratic British pronunciation. I believe Mr. Sowell has actually written an article on the origins of "Black English" in the dialects of old Virginia.
Another cultural commonality of Blacks and poor whites is the very dualistic religious outlook, ie, a fervent emotional religious belief that often clashes with a very profane, alchoholic, or promiscuous lifestyle. Liberals often accuse white Fundamentalist preachers of sexual peccadilloes (the "Elmer Gantry syndrome"), yet white Southerners make the exact same accusation of Black preachers in order to discredit the "civil rights" movement. And is a suggestive blues record backed with a gospel song in praise of J*sus really that different from the same phenomenon when the A-side is a country song about drinkin' and cheatin'?
I also would like to point out that poor Southern whites and Blacks (or at least he latter's liberal white supporters) often exchange the very same accusations: laziness, stupidity, sexual immorality, etc. Were the "degrading" pictures of Blacks in the popular culture of another day (Willie Best, Stepin Fetchit, etc.) really that different from the "inbred backwoods morons" that are in our day (in the memorable words of Jim Goad, author of The Redneck Manifesto) "the only cardboard cutup left standing in our national ethnic shooting gallery"? And of course poor whites and Blacks have always belonged to essentially the same social/economic class and have had many of the same basic experiences (and note that after the last election blue state liberals were only too happy to accuse the red states of living off "welfare" created by their productive labor!).
What I am saying is that there is a sort of common low-class experience and culture common to the two oldest and most similar American ethno-cultural groups, as may be evidenced by watching most any episode of "The Jerry Springer Show" or "Divorce Court" and all other similar garbage (and no, I don't watch them). Call them Black/White trash, Black/White trailer park culture, or what you will. But the point is, partisans of each group enjoy hypocritically sailing into the other for all these characteristics that are basically held in common. That's all I'm saying.
He's no spring chicken. At least 70 if memory serves me correctly.
It's called, "Born Fighting", and traces the history of this culture (called the Scots-Irish in the book) from it's origins in the lowlands of Scotland, to America. My high-schooler read it as part of our American History unit. I highly recommend it.
Complaints about "lack of diversity" at the local university are laughable. There are several thousand international students. I guess we are all supposed to know the code words by now.
If one does a few 'pubs' in North Ireland that feature live music, its not whit different from what we call Country and Western. Even their humor is very similar to what is found in the southern and western USA.
The after hours joints are even better.
Sowell has written a few books on the subject of Race, culture and migration. I found them facinating. Not page turners to be sure, but very enjoyable.
I certainly wouldn't claim to be knowledgeable about anything concerning golf.
I've just seen him well-handle reporters who were trying to make racial issues out of things, and he was having none of it.
A few titles on the subject by Sowell in case you are interested.
Migrations and Cultures
The Economics and Politics of Race: An International Perspective
ETHNIC AMERICA: A HISTORY
Race & Culture: A World View
Conquests and Cultures
Migrations and Cultures: A World View
Some of these Diversity recruiters have done their job so well that the majority is not the minority.
Evil knowledge is the root of all evil.
I've had the thought that Roti's were in essense Cornish Pasties.. they serve the same purpose.. made with an East Indian twist..
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