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The earth is not a closed system - there is a net amount of energy falling on it (from the sun) and that is what allows it to become more "orderly".

Thanks for the great link, aquila48! WRT the above italics: the reference is to the solar system. But what of the Universe as a whole? Where does it get its "order" (energy) from? Should we think of it as a "closed" or as an "open" system?

Thoughts, people???

Thanks for the great link, aquila48! WRT the above italics: the reference is to the solar system. But what of the Universe as a whole? Where does it get its "order" (energy) from? Should we think of it as a "closed" or as an "open" system?

Actually, the reference was just to the earth. I imagine if one considers the whole solar system then entropy may actually be increasing and thus the solar system as a whole is becoming more random. For this to be true there would have to be more energy escaping the solar system than entering it, which is probably the case.

As for the whole universe, I don't believe we know as yet, since we don't know whether it's a closed system and if open whether there is a net energy inflow.

Thank you so much for the ping to your engaging conversation!

The hypothesis of heat death of the universe is based on the physical entropy with the universe as a closed system. As the article indicates, the inflationary model suggests that the universe was in thermodynamic equilibrium prior to expansion.

Furthermore, the very notion of thermodynamic modeling of the universe has been called into question, since the effects of such factors as gravity and quantum phenomena are very difficult to reconcile with simple thermodynamic models, rendering the utility of such models as predictive systems highly doubtful according to some.

The notion of physical causality is based (primarily) on physical entropy - an arrow of time or time line. But relativity, non-locality and superposition speak to the contrary.

IOW, the notion that space/time is three dimensional space evolving over time is false. Time is a dimension (x,y,z,t) – that is why clocks run slower in higher positive gravity, light bends near gravity indentations of space/time. To the observer traveling at the speed of light (speed limit of the physical realm) – no time passes. The gravity indentations are equivalent to velocity (equivalence principle).

State-of-the-art geometric physics suggests there may be more than one temporal dimension (in addition to all the spatial dimensions called for in string theory). In Cumrun Vafa’s F-theory, the additional time dimension forces us to think in terms of a time plane in our 4D rather than a timeline. Past, present, future exist all at once in the hypercube. Cause/effect could be effect/cause or not related at all.

Also, in this 5D, 2 temporal dimension theory, the Kaluza-Klein compactification of extra dimensions is not required and all kinds of matter in 4D arise from vacuums in the higher, 5th dimension. Notably, in this theory rather than 10⁸⁰ particles in the physical universe, it may be one particle which appears 10⁸⁰ times.

BTW, the reverse of the positive gravity indentation is also being investigated. In this case a negative gravity would be a space/time “outdent” causing the acceleration of the universe and may be what we call “dark energy”.

As I recall, it was Lisa Randall who suggested that the reason gravity is so small by comparison to the other fields is that it is interdimensional.

IMHO, a worldview and cosmology which is grounded in thermodynamics is false for the same reason that a worldview based on microscope to telescope is tunnel-visioned.